Gate Opens Up On BBC Brownlee
GARETH Southgate did a lively Q&A on BBC Tees last night and it went as you expect these things to go: a lot of interesting things were said - but no one will have changed their mind one jot and listeners from both ends of the Boro political spectrum seized on the particular soundbites that will confirm their own beliefs.
At least there won't be howls of outrage that a section of supporters have been slighted this time - although plenty will believe that their intelligence has been insulted. Those for who the die is cast will see the exercise as merely PR spin and empty platitudes.
The gaffer is an articulate and sincere bloke so spoke well and honestly about where he thought the club was now and where - and how - he intends to take it. It is always good to hear the boss deal directly with questions from a passionate and hard to please public rather than a press pack who don't really care about the answers.
There is more urgency, more importance and more scrutiny of every single word - here's John Powls' analysis on Boro Banter of some key phrases used and not used and here is the view from the Follow The Boro Brick Road blog. But that examination helps feed a healthy debate around the club. It is culturally beneficial.
But those who are firmly in the anti camp will gleefully point out it failed to address what they see as the key problem: his own tenure. Those who want blood will not be easily bought off with hindsight admissions about the failings of last season or an acceptance that if he fails this time the decision to stay or go will be taken out of his hands... as if he was going to go live and confess to Ali Brownlee that yes, indeed, he was a rubbish manager and every problem in the team, the world banking collapse and the crisis at Corus were all of his making and subsequently he was resigning immediately. That is not what these things are about.
When faced with one early tetchy and persistent dissident who raised just that point - his tenure, not his responsibility for the world economic slum - and said directly and unequivocally they had not renewed because he was boss Gareth was patient, respectful, understanding and reasonable and accepted they yes, had that right and explained that he knew there were a large faction who took that stance and who wanted him gone but outlined his determination to win them back with results. That was magnanimous of him; personally I would have told them to get stuffed.
That call raised a lot of issues that will be central to the political dynamic this season. No matter how persuasive Southgate and the club are, no matter how honest the explanations or ambitious the rhetoric and no matter how well the team perform there are now a significant vocal minority who will not be pacified or won over and who have set out their stall. They want the boss out no matter what. They have decided.
Every defeat or dropped point will be further evidence of Southgate's ineptitude as a manager and tactician and will intensify the calls for his head while every win or stirring display will be seen as being the bare minimum and achieved despite of not because of him and will only buy breathing space until the clamour resumes with the next set-back.
We have been here before. Steve McClaren lost a section of the fans midway through his second season and that slowly gathered an unstoppable momentum from then on, no matter what was piled in the credit column thereafter.
The victory at Cardiff was for many 'papering over the cracks'. The highest ever league position was a fluke that was achieved by the players despite McClaren's attempt to stifle them with his tactical strait-jacket. And the UEFA Cup runs were an undeserved freak that couldn't disguise the disintegration of the league campaign. A lot of people really did not enjoy the glory years because the reality did not sit comfortably with their own imagined apocalyptic world view of Satanic dysfunctional McClarenism.
The point is that you have to start from what you have, not what you would ideally like and you have to accept that in a world of contradictions and fine margins even a flawed team - or a boss you have decided is not up to the job - can still deliver.
Anyway, I digress. Southgate was brave to go live at this point before his new look team have had a chance to be tested. At the moment it is all speculation and that left him open to all manner of conjecture. It was also risky because he was never going to win the opposition over while running the risk of alienating more waverers.
What do the punters think?
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I think it was totally inspiring. Gareth realises that he underperformed last season, he knows that if he doesn't perform this season, he'll be gone. He sounds totally determined to get us back up, and I think he now deserves the backing to do that. We all know where we stand now - when asked if he would walk if we didn't get promoted - he acknowledged that decision wouldn't be his to take.
He's a great bloke, a Boro legend, and I can't see how any Boro fan would not want him (and us) to succeed this season.
Last night's interview was disappointing in that no one pulled him up on his comments of needing two goals a game, and asking him who was going to score them, bearing in mind our horrendous lack of a strikeforce.
He's already doing his best to get rid of Alves, Mido and Tuncay. If no one buys them, then they won't be replaced with anybody, and yet they have proved so ineffective in the Premiership, and have shown great reluctance to play in the Championship.
I've just fininshed listening online to the Southgate phone-in and the first half was indeed mainly calls saying that we think you're a useless manager and you should go - except for one from a Phil in Billingham (BoroPhil?) who was very supportive of our Gareth.
OK, ultimately it must have been a PR exercise on the club's behalf (why else would you do it?) but Southgate refused to be ruffled - "I respect your opinion but I'm up for the challenge given to me by the chairman" kind of approach.
Although he didn't go into too much detail about what went wrong (other than the usual hindsight is a wonderful thing and financial constraints) and who is likely to leave or stay a few points could be extracted from his replies:
- The offer for Mido may not be progressing quite as smoothly as we hope
- Alves may be a bit lightweight for the Championship and his head is not in the right place
- The players that went to Scotland are committed to the club (i.e. O'Neil, Ali, Huth and Jinky)
- Turnbull was dropped because he turned down a very good offer last December
- Jinky's failure to sign a new contract is not about money but the opportunity to play regularly
- New signings are more likely to happen closer to the deadline as other clubs have decided on who they want to keep
- A big physical centre-forward is on our wish list
To be honest it doesn't really matter what he says now as it's what happens on the pitch that will decide if he's still manager in three months time (or less)
Tried to add my comments earlier - but the gubbins swallowed two tries.
I've set out my version on Boro Banter.
"No matter how persuasive Southgate and the club are, no matter how honest the explanations or ambitious the rhetoric and no matter how well the team perform there are now a significant vocal minority who will not be pacified or won over and who have set out their stall. They want the boss out no matter what. They have decided."
You're writing as if the people who hold such opinions are being unreasonable. A season like last season is difficult to accept, and being relegated in such abject fashion would normally necessitate wide-ranging change at a football club. This hasn't happened and the club (and seemingly you) expect us to fall in foursquare behind Southgate as a matter of course, and seem surprised that there are those who refuse to. Is it really surprising that some people bear a slight disillusionment?
Personally I blame the "Strange Relegation" of last season on the management - this being the case, and insofar as I want the best for my football club, I am not overly delighted that the architect of our downfall is still anywhere near the levers of power. Having said that, for the short-term, he still is, so I want to be proven wrong. But am I obliged to think that it will end well?
**AV writes: I am not saying anyone of whatever perspective is reasonable or otherwise. I am just outlining what I see as the political landscape and the mindset of the various protagonists as we go into what could be an explosive season.
Gareth's hands are tied when it comes to the Reluctant 3, and he basically said as much. It also sounds like if they are still here in September, he will expect them to play a full part. It will be an interesting month.
I also found the part about the players who went to Scotland having committed themselves very interesting - it looks more and more likely that players like GON and Huth will stay after all - a massive boost, as I'm sure we all expected them to leave.
And no it wasn't me - after all, if I lived in Billingham, IâÂÂd surely be a Mackem?
I didn't hear the Q&A but I'm guessing it was old uncle Allie not asking the right questions like he didn't with SG.
Why didn't we see anyone sweating blood and tears for only three more points last year? Anyone see that ? Be honest, did anyone ?? I saw an awful lot of tears but it was from the fans. These are the questions Allie needed to ask.
Why didn't we see the passion and commitment from Gareth on the sidelines trying to rev up the players? Why did we hear lame excuse after lame excuse in after match interviews. No honest "we were rubbish and I'm going to beat the hell out of them in the dressing room." No, we got lessons which were never learned.
Why do we think what is pretty much the same team as last year with the same manager will suddenly turn in to world beaters, sorry lower level championship world beaters this year ?
Let's face it Turnbull has been pushed out, Stewie has been sold, Tuncay will be flogged off asap we get a decent offer, even probably a half decent offer. Jono hasn't signed a new contract so he'll be off soon as well one way or another.
So our best players last season have more or less gone. Mido being sold doesn't count since he barely played anyway last year before he was loaned out. I'm glad to see the back of the fat Egyptian but him leaving doesn't weaken the team.
Why do we keep buying prolific strikers then they don't work out, why is that ? Then we sell them off for less than what we paid for them ? That doesn't make football or economic sense. How is that strengthening the team ? I don't see it.
I've said before. We needed at least two more midfield players and someone to replace Arca, someone to replace Aliadiere, someone to replace Tuncay and another big striker to help take the heat off Alves - and now someone to replace Bates. By my reckoning we still need at least seven players of a quality better than those currently in the Championship. We've got some great kids but they need some quality help, this will be a long hard season.
So time is ticking....
So going back to your question what do the punters think ?
My answer is simple. I've yet to be convinced that GS has got a clue what needs doing. I keep thinking back to that TV show "it'll be all right on the night" and that's the deluded thinking going on at the club. The only difference is we'll be playing teams that are worse than we played last year. How is that progress ?
If we're top at the end of the season will I feel any better about him ? No. He's lost the respect I and many others had for him hiding behind the sacking of Malcom Crosbie and the massage guy! If anyone thinks those guys were responsible for the shambles of last year they're also deluded.
I've slipped into the Nay's camp and I really didn't want to do that.
**AV writes: There were no safe questions from Ali. As stated if was a Q&A with ordinary punters and some of the questions were very direct and very awkward.
I think its time to stop all the bickering and back biting regarding GS and whether or not he's your choice for manager. I feel now is the time we stand united for our clubs sake before the national media latch on to all the negativity and start painting us with the same brush as the Barcodes.
We all know the consequences for GS if hes doesn't get it right in the first 10 games. It looks as though certain players we thought would have been gone have pledged to stay and fight for the cause.
Moreover can anyone tell me why that the three in the departure lounge who GS expects to leave anytime soon have been given the squad numbers as last season. Is it possible that bids for them are becoming less likely so its possible they could still be here come September?
Also AV according to Sky Sports we are very close to signing an Irish under 21 international by the name Jay O'Shea from Galway United. Is there any truth in this?
**AV writes: There have been very strong reports from Ireland over the weekend on this but I haven't heard anything official from this end yet.
I thought GS held himself together very well and from a neutral sounded like a top class manager - but we know that is not the case.
All I kept hearing was that there was 'issues' in the club that prevented the team from competing in the PL and from winning anymore than two of the final 26 games. These issues have NEVER been explained to the fans, why? Is it because most of the people responsible are still at the club? Is it because this was a stage managed relegation to ease the cutting of the running costs at the club?
Its okay for supporters to say lets put last season behind us, but if our manager/chairman keep telling us there were things out of their control then tell us what they are so we can accept them and move on.
Nothing gained from the interview and I doubt any additional season tickets will be sold on top of it.
What do we want as football fans?
Firstly a team to support. Without raking up the past, this clubs owes a lot to only a handful of individuals who always put the club, not themselves first.
Secondly, pride in their team. A team full of local players representing a small town, striving to improve.
Thirdly, enjoyment = goals. This season there is a god chance we might score three goals in a game and even threaten away from home!!
Come on Boro fans. LetâÂÂs get behind the lads regardless of whoâÂÂs in charge. A united support with some of the quality in our squad will put the wind right up some of the opposition in this league. LetâÂÂs remember we are fans of the club, not the self delusional happy clappers in Newcastle.
I always think these talk shows with the club never actually cover half the questions that me and everyone i know wants to know.
By now we are all aware Southgate plays men out of position and confronting him about the season ahead would have been a benefit e.g. ask him if Johnson and Yeates will be starting on both flanks this season because right now I wouldnt be surprised if he plays Yeates up front or in the middle of midfield and Aliadiere back on his ineffective position, anything to stop a easy 100% common sense decision of both men whipping in crosses from both sides and opening up the pitch.
The easy formation would be 4-4-2 with Jones, Hoyte, Huth, Wheater/Riggott(but we all know Wheater will play), Taylor, Yeates (right), O'Neil, Digard, Johnson (left), Emnes and a strike partner, although again we know Aliadiere will play so where would a new striker fit in? Will emnes be once again cast to the bench?
The problem is other players like Pogatetz must play and according to Southgate, Arca will be wanting to play and this just like in the last few years will lead to Southgate fitting them in anyway he can instead of using his most effective team.
I feel bad for Bates as you dont wish that on anyone but I was not concerned at all in regards to the team because Digard and O'Neil (i cant believe he is still at the club even though I am very happy it looks like he may stay) are better in midfield whilst in defence Huth, Riggott, Wheater and heck even Pogatetz is better, and at right back Hoyte and Mcmahon are both superior.
We know if bates had been fit he would have played as he's Southgate's number 1 guy and I feel his many average performances would have thrown more criticism at southgate.
Anyone who puts himself in front of the media whether its GS or anybody else who was manager of MFC was putting themselves in the firing line to either be shot down down in flames or praised to the hilt. Its a lose lose situation as far as I can see. You're damned if you do you're damned if you don't.
As smogonthetyne says now is the time to stand united and get behind the team. As for redcartim I can't really see it as a stage managed relegation. No professional footballer is going to go out under instruction to lose a game. We criticise them for lacking effort or not trying but to go out to lose a game to ease running costs no footballer worth his pay packet would stick around at a football club run along those lines.
We all know that Gareth comes across well in interviews prior to the event. He would make a good Politician. Full of lots of promise and ideas. But rarely follows them through. On paper he knows what he wants but time again he just doesn't seem able to back up his words. he is a poor motivator and lacks respect from the players.
He has lost all respect from me since he refuses to resign after losing 11 away games on the trot and only two wins from 26 games and allowed the bottom team to do the double over us. How much worse could he have done?
Nick, spot on with your post.
Someone tell Southagte and his cronies, football is a simple game.
Play a winger on the wing, a centre back at center back etc..
If someone gets injured bring in another player that plays in his position.
We basically have a strong squad for this division, bring in a centre forward who can head the ball and a midfield player who can pass to a red shirt.
Wellbeck and Gibson on loan from Man U?
C'Mon Boro!
The point/question I would like to raise with GS is :-
Last season managers such as Tony Pullis, David Moyes, Roy Houghton, Gary Megson, Steve Bruce, Paul Hart...and more, got the best out of his respective squad. We quite clearly didn't and I believe that was the reason we went down.
We underperformed while others did more than enough (Stoke, with a low quality squad, finished the season 13 points ahead of Boro and Fulham a massive 21 points)
Question to GS : Having not done so last season, how does he intend to get the very best out of his squad this season? What will change in his management approach?
I believe we fans, as the Client of MFC, deserve and answer to that question.
We all know that Gareth comes across well in interviews prior to the event. He would make a good Politician. Full of lots of promise and ideas. But rarely follows them through. On paper he knows what he wants but time and time again he just doesn't seem able to back up his words. he is a poor motivator and lack the respect from the players.
He has lost all respect from me since he refuses to resign after losing 11 away games on the trott and only 2 wins from 26 games and allowed the bottom team to do the double over us. How much worse could he have done?
Everyone knows, or should do, the BBC always vet (right way to say it?) calls. That's why there were no passionate ones calling both Southgate or Gibson. The BBC doesnt like controversy.
**AV writes: Did you listen to it? If what you say is right then that first half was the worst vetting of calls since that lad got through to Five Star on Swap Shop.
The interview was another insult to the long suffering Boro fans. "Last season we didn't get it right ... I take full responsibility ..."
What about the comical question by Brownlee - "Why should everything land on your shoulders Gareth?" NOTHING has landed on his shoulders, he's still the manager! Bing 'Scapegoat' Crosby got the bullet while Gareth is still 'top banana'.
The interview, to steal Dennis Healeys description of Geoffrey Howe was like being ravaged by a dead sheep. The same old bull about financial constraints. I have yet to see/hear a more thick skinned manager.
Just because he appears to be calm and speaks with a southern accent doesn't make him articulate or honest.
I have said it before and forgive me for repeating it. While it's nice to have someone who can communicate well, it's only valuable if they have thoughts, views and judgments that are worth listening to. That's why Bobby Robson, who was more of a Prescott than a Mandleson, is so respected.
COME ON SHEFF UTD, SWANSEA, SCUNTHORPE ... That should do it despite Gareths pitiful comment about Sunderland losing the first when they went down to the Fizzy Pop. Even the Gazette couldn't save him then.
Gate spoke well as usual, didnt expect anything else.
After Season Ticket Gate I posted the following:
"All the disatisfaction is just sitting under the surface. Whatever the rights and wrongs, Mac has lost a section of the fans and it is difficult to win them back. As soon as something goes wrong the boards and phone-in will be full of grumbling.
Even if we have a decent end to the season Europe is unlikely to be direct qualification and the grumbling will start.
"The world cup may deflect attention for a while but when the season ticket renewal forms start hitting letter boxes we may see a reaction from the unhappy.
Fans will look at the cost and may decide that as they can get tickets to any match why buy. The club will probably do incentives anyway. That may be the point when the scale of any mutiny becomes apparent. "
February 20, 2006 2:53 PM
As we approached the end to that season I then posted
"In September I made the point that a couple of cup semi's and finishing 8th and no Europe would be treated as failure. Unfair but failure. The ramifications of not requalifying are huge. The following points are put bleakly to highlight the club's problems. Can we support the wage bill and squad? Rotation means a place in the North Riding Senior Cup.
"What will happen to season ticket sales following the fiasco of 'the only place you dont go to on a Saturday at 3.00pm is the Riverside'. Fans have learnt that you can bide your time and go to the good matches. Why turn up for lower teams when you know Boro won't. The glory seekers who only turn up when Cup Finals are up for grabs now includes the players.
"If Mac had been on the sub continent we would have won both test series because Mac is the match for Kumbli and co in the spin stakes. Gate openly talks of problems, the biggest we may face is if Mac stays. Not everything is his fault, he gets reflected flak from off pitch activities. As Phil Thomson said, if you are winning all the problems melt away.
"Clearly there are problems at the club, most clubs have them. Expectations are now much higher. We have won a trophy, played in europe for two seasons, lots of exposure good and bad. I think it will be a turbulent summer."
April 25, 2006 7:49 PM
What followed is now history and cannot be undone. We are in the Championship and await our fate.
What is striking are the similarities with the current views of fans. Last night will only result in further entrenching the diverse views of fans.
Some things in life remain constant.
Just catching up on the blog and have to say I loved your response to billy north's comment AV. I hope the link to the Garth Scapegoat q&a is still live when I get back off my hols next week so I can judge for myself.
AV, liked the 5-star remark, but maybe thats what it would have took to get the message home, for somebody to ask him: "Why are you so ******* ****! "
Maybe then he would realise peoples true opinion of him as a manager.
**AV writes: I've added some extra asterisks to that. Anyone who understands the cultural reference doesn't really need any more reminding of the actual dialogue.
Reminds me of an old Tom Jones story, he said of visiting his old local in Wales.
"If you buy everyone a drink you are a flash b******; if you buy no one a drink, you are a tight Git!"
At least Gareth went to the pub, more power to him. He is prepared to stand up and be counted, are the fans prepared to do the same?
I didn't listen to the Gibbo interview previously because as I predicted beforehand it would be all stage managed and just a cosy MFC/Tees/Ali foam handed love in. Despite John Foster complaining on the morning of the interview on his breakfast show about those and similar predictions being wide of the mark sadly we were spot on!
I didn't listen to the Scapegate tapes last night as quite frankly I am not interested in anything he has to say. His talk is cheap, hollow and without foundation. He didn't learn any lessons and presented us with the most deplorable managerial record in European football last season. He should have done the honourable thing but clearly MFC now do things their way and he undeservedly has another shot at winning say three games in 26.
For the sake of Boro I hope he can resurrect his credibility and find himself (I doubt it but will be happy to be proved wrong). He can talk the talk now I want to see him walk the walk now(literally if necessary).
The first signs of square peggism, late goals conceded, zonal marking, Corporal flapping at crosses and the rabbits in headlamps syndrome start appearing and he can be guaranteed the Riverside atmosphere will turn very ugly very quickly and well before 10 games in.
I am sure he is aware of this so he knows what he is letting himself in for and it is this perverse logic that makes me hope that maybe he has got some fight and bottle left somewhere deep down and shows it this season.
For the sake of Boro I hope he comes good, maybe with Alan Smith riding shotgun this season he might have a better chance. I doubt that even promotion as champions will be enough to win back the doubters anytime soon but it will do as an absolute minimum to start with!
For me my money is on the home game against Leicester being the defining moment one way or another.
"As I said previously" "This is what I said on Boro Banter" "Said this 100 years ago" "Didn't I tell you" "Been following Boro since Wilf Mannion was in short pants" "Richard said" blah blah blah blah blah.
Zzzzzz, yes you are all very clever.
The season starts against Sheff Utd. The rest is just history.
It is your club, get behind it. Nobody else will.
Whatever the feelings about Southgate's last season as manager, it is pretty clear that the club were in fairly dire financial straits and this contribute to our demise.
Southgate avoided finances like the plague in his interview, but the comment about being unable to replace Cattermole was evidence enough when added to quotes during the season.
As for playing people out of position, give the bloke a chance. Most of the time he had no choice because of injury. Other times he was desperately trying to get goals and would try anything at the end of games.
I do think strategic decisions, substitutions etc were made that cost us a game or two, but the primary reason for our demise was our paper thin squad and injuries to key players. This was not entirely Southgate's fault.
Having said that it is still hard to understand why the club ever bought Alves, (so far a complete waste of a lot of money), a decision that effectively cost us our Premier League position since we were unable to strengthen in other areas.
Overall Southgate remains a manager that presents well for the club and given the right financial support will do ok. The experience gained last year will no doubt be invaluable in helping other clubs when he finally moves on. Just a pity he had to learn his lessons with Boro.
I thought he gave the right answers to some difficult questions, and if we can strengthen with a couple of players we should have a successful season.
Despite wanting him gone, I hope he does well this coming season. He deserves some respect for retaining his dignity through the mess of the last few months.
Rumours out that Stutgart is willing to pay ã9m for Tuncay and the offer for Mido is from Egypt... Could be quite complicated and too expensive for a Egyptian club to pay ã2-3m million for him. But hopefully he goes soon.
I hope Tuncay stays but if Stutgart start the bidding I think some English PL teams will follow with an improved bid soon.
Up the Boro!
Grove Hill:
History provides valuable lessons, be it the recent past or futher back. If you keep doing what didnt work before it is unlikely to work in the future.
The hard line Gate is taking on players attitudes is good, the early pre season signs are promising, if he gets in some good additions we should have have an exciting season.
I am 100% behind the team because I am a Boro fan. I have my fingers crossed that Gate turns into a top manager. I certainly am not hoping he fails because I can see nothing positive in us struggling in the coming season. There is nothing to be gained in being 16th place at the end of September.
As Werdermouth says, if things go wrong Gibbo will change tack soon enough. Personally I am looking for bragging rights amongst the Derby, Forest and Leicester fans that scar the beauty of the Derbyshire peaks and rolling countryside around Nottingham/Leicester.
But history is still history, cant undo it.
This blog seems to have inspired some of the most entertaining posts I've read in a while, covering the complete cross-section of opinion of Boro fans.
It's clear that some fans are lost all patience with Southgate and are even hoping Boro lose games so that he is quickly sacked - whilst other fans have lost all patience with the fans who are beginning to sound a bit self-righteous and are still too upset to move on.
I can't say I've been won over by Southgate's carefully delivered spin but a new season is starting next week and we are where we are and I'd rather see Boro do well than be proved right over the choice of manager.
For the record I predicted Boro could finish 7th before last season started as I thought there were too many average teams in the PL - OK for the first couple of months I was sitting pretty but then the wheels came off the Boro wagon.
So hopefully this season the wheels have been carefully secured and any early mishaps with the wagon would see the blame fall on the learner driver - however i'm confident there will be no complacency this season and a place on the podium is well within our grasp.
BTW, I read this morning that Stuttgart have met Boro's valuation of Tuncay with a ã9m bid. Although Tuncay apparently prefers to stay in the PL, Stuttgart have qualified for the Champions League and also have a large Turkish population that would guarantee him hero status. So he may find this move hard to resist - on the downside, learning German is not for the faint hearted.
Score draw? Own goal more like. I can't get my head around any so called fan who wants to see Boro lose. What a plank.
Looks like thereÃÅœs still a lot of fans spitting feathers and rightly so. Still the Boro are SGÃÅœs baby and we all can only expel hot air for all the change it brings.
Been away a while grieving. Can anyone tell me the result of the post relegation enquiry? I believe there was supposed to be a fan or two invited to the post mortem.
Ste Mac - Let me help you 'get your head around it'
1. Gareth has been a monumental failure no matter how you measure it (his agent & bank manager might disagree ?)
2. If he wins against poor opposition like Doncaster for example, some 'fans' will probably get 'Geordie fever' think everything is great and forget about it i.e. 'fat, dumb and happy'.
3. I on the other hand being a perfect example of "Middlesbrough Manhood" am immune to 'Geordie fever' and realise at this juncture that the best thing for the Boro is a few thumping's and a speedy dismissal (3 years in the job !)
4. Replace a fairly treated and very well rewarded Gareth with someone who can do the job better than he can.
5. The Boro, who I want to succeed more than any other team, will be in a better position than they are now, with Gareth in charge and you singing 'there's only one Gareth Southgate'.
6. A great 'roadmap' don't you agree ? The alternative is the football equivalent of Woolworths.
7. Don't call me a plank - I'm sensitive.
The Plank
Ian,
"What is striking are the similarities with the current views of fans. Last night will only result in further entrenching the diverse views of fans."
I'm not sure I agree with this. I get the feeling that quite a few of the people who wanted Gareth out are now prepared to give him a chance - not much of one - and I'm sure they will return to their original stance quite quickly if they aren't happy - but if we start well, support will return. There will obviously be the stubborn ones who say they won't return until he is removed.
It's a start. Now it's up to Gareth and the players.
Jay O'Shea to be sure
he'll be a premiership starter!
In response to Ian Gill,
I too would love to see us beat our rivals in the East Midlands. Having been brought up in Nottingham for the first 18 years of my tawdry existence, I have more ill feeling towards Forest than I do to Sunderland. The least said about Leicester the better!!
Our record against Forest is appalling, one win in my living memory, sealed with a late âÂÂlobâ by the effervescent Brian Deane. Unfortunately this was the first Boro game I had missed at the City Ground!! (Due to ridiculous prior engagement with girlfriend)
Anyway it looks like Forest could be serious promotion contenders this season. So I think GarethâÂÂs day of destiny could be the 21st of November. Failure to win that game Gareth and you have lost my support for ever*.
*This may not be true. My support could be won back by victories at St James and against Scunthorpe on my birthday.
BoroPhil
I think it has entrenched views.
My entrenched view was that the club had a shocker last season, Gate a large has share of responsibility and is a very lucky chap to still be in the job. If you recall I posted after the relegation that certain people would slink away leaving Gate carrying the can.
I heard nothing that changed my views, as expressed in my response to Grove Hill, that I am 100% behind the club, hope Gate does a great job and proves to be a great manager.
It wont change history and wont remove relegation from his CV, nor will it stop me commenting on the nonsense from MFC or praising things they do well.
You certainly havent changed your views nor have those who think he should be sacked. As I said in the postings of yore people will use whatever is said to suit their own purposes.
Let us hope we dont have need of bloodletting by October. The pending sale of Mido would be a positive sign if we can bring in someone, same goes for the mooted move for Tuncay.
I did not hear the interview with Southgate but what is surprising to me is if he accepts full responsibility for relegation last year then why did he not offer his resignation? Was there any indication from Southgate that he had done so?
I think his integrity has been compromised because he is like every other public figure these days, who preside over failure - they apologise for their failings, declare lessons will be learned, move on, as they say, but crucially they stay in their jobs. Southgate has done that and I think less of him for doing so.
At least he knows if we make a poor start he will be gone. I hope we start well,we play good football, generally have a successful season and return to the Premier League. However all of this is hope rather than expectation under the current regime.
AV - Five Star deserved it , so does Southgate haha.
Seriously its monotonous listening to his spin-doctor spiel. If he doesnt get off to a good start, he has to go sooner rather than later, and as for Gibson, by hanging onto him, does he like turning a club hero into a hate figure. Let's face it, I reckon its more than 50/50 at present figures.
There is definitely a worse air of doom and gloom than any previous Boro side i can recall going back as far as 1969, obviously liquidation was different, that wasnt the teams fault. It seems the more this club goes on, more things seem wrong with it, deeply, behind the scenes. Still, at least we ain't Newcastle.
I missed the interview with the manager originally, due to work. I had a listen to the recorded show last night & I have to say I am a little perplexed by some of the comments on here. As AV has said previously, anyone who thinks the questions were nice & comfortable, must have missed the first 20 minutes of the interview.
"Both me & the other members of my family have decided not to renew our season tickets & that is purely down to the fact that you are still at the club"
"I would like to know what you think you have achieved in the last three years, because as far as I can see, there has been nothing but abject failure"
OUCH !!
I will not pretend that I was particularly impressed with all of the answers coming from the manager. On the other hand, he has my respect for facing up to the questions posed by some, obviously angry fans & answering them calmly. He still seems very reticent to apportion blame to any particular individuals, or name names when talking about people he felt did not deliver.
One point that I do not believe anyone else has picked up on, is that he actually seemed surprised himself that he is still the manager of the club. I'm sure that many on these forums would add that he is not alone there !
It pains me to read so called fans posting that Southgate is a 'hate figure'.
Hang your head in shame.
I will always remember his performances on the pitch and I hope most supporters have the ability to distinguish between him as a player and a manager.
As a club we are now living within our means after a decade of living above it and now reverting to type. Our best hope for future success is through the academy and signing hungry players who want to play for the club.
But please keep a sense of perspective.
Imagine the following scenario.
A hospital has a Chief Surgeon who has more successful operations than most hospitals, and so he goes to a national job. The head of the hospital appoints a boy just out of medical school to be the new Chief Surgeon. This surprises everyone, but the head has done very well at running the hospital, so everyone says "he must know something about this kid".
Over three years, the hospital has much more than its share of deaths in operations, and in the final few months, every patient on the operating table dies.
Now imagine that the young doctor's contract as Chief Surgeon is renewed at the end of the third year, and you can then understand the continuing amazement of Boro fans.
Until the young doctor demonstrates a long string of successful operations, everyone is totally and entirely justified in questioning his continued position as Chief Surgeon.
Those who challenge this continued questioning would seem to be part of the official PR machine.
**AV writes: What if the rookie saw bones keeps the hospital in the top 16 in the national league tables for his first two years? And the last eight of the exhibition surgery cup three years running? And does it all on budget even though the hospital faces massive funding cuts and is chronically under-staffed? What then? That is what the chairman of the board of governors has to decide.
Peterboroangel - you are dead right. Some of the stuff aimed at Gareth is disgraceful, the man is a Boro legend. Even if you think he is a useless manager, there is no doubt he has given 100% for this club and deserves nothing but respect.
People say he should do the honourable thing and quit - for me, the honourable thing would be to rectify the mistakes he has made, not to walk away, which would be a far easier option.
Interesting to hear Gary Gill calling the first half against Oldham 'an education', clearly there must be some learning going on. Only got the commentary but interesting all the same.
After our first goal, I sent a text John to say how much we had improved on scoring from set pieces. He received the message by multimedia with Gill of the Gary variety saying the same as the second goal went in. So there is a plus point. Goals from sources we didnâÂÂt get enough from last season.
A lot of the rest confirmed what we all know.
The absence of OâÂÂNeil and Digard in midfield left us a little short in that area, namely Arca. You need real athletes in that area, to be fair to Arca, he isnâÂÂt that type of player and ideally you do not want him near your own box. In the first half they bossed the game.
We did not make their goalie work in the first half, no one attacking the ball, service in could have been better but who to? We know Jinky will get better as he gets settled in, we know Yeates looks a useful acquisition (and improved things second half), we know we need some more physical strikers.
Gary Gill posed a very good question in that no matter the finances, we know we will offload players (and have already moved on Downing), we have identified the players we want and would come to us. Surely we could have brought someone in especially up front. But we donâÂÂt know the full story behind the scenes, it may be loan players who cannot be released yet or our finances really wont justify bringing someone in.
They were quicker to the ball first half and physical but fair, there is likely to be a step up in intensity required at Millwall and a further step up against Sheff Utd.
That is what pre-season is all about, getting ready for the upcoming season. Ideally, we could do with the players in sooner than later.
I said he may become a hate figure, which is down to Gibson keeping him at the club especially when results aren't favourable, which is a shame. I never liked or rated him at villa or england but was won over as a player in half a season here, but all this time as a manager has diminished that.
It could have gone that way with Bobby Murdoch or Willie Maddren, but luckily it didn't (for me anyway, as Maddren was best footballer i ever saw on a pitch)...
waffling now, small boys in the park, jumpers for goalposts, marvelous, you know, isnt it!
Daily Mirror says ã2million for Huth. Do they just make silly fees up? No reason for the 24 year old (yes, he looks 34) to leave for anything less than a minimum of ã4m but I'd expect the ã6m we paid.
A few points on transfer speculation :-
If the rumours of a ã10-ã12 million offer for Cattermole are true, then I hope for two things ;
a) that Boro have a substantial % sell on clause as part of the sale to Wigan
b) that GS takes note of just what a run in the team does for young players with clear potential, without detriment to overall team performance. I am thinking in particular of Rhys Williams, Josh Walker, Adam Johnson and Tony McMahon. None of these four would let the team down and would come on hugely given a prolonged run in the first team.
Stephen Ireland of Man C is the prime example of how a young player can come on leaps and bounds when given such an opportunity.
Another point regarding a potential transfer is that of Robert Huth being the subject of a ã2m bid from Fulham. A German international, 24 years old, 6âÂÂ4âÂÂ, proven EPL player for ã2m?
That suggests one thing â he is crocked and consequently any potential buyer understands what they are taking on. I would also suggest that he does very little training, in the same mould as Ledley King and Paul McGrath.
Gary OâÂÂNeil has a groin injury? Does this come from the same source that used to inform us that Gazza had picked up a virus? Suspicions of a pending move to Pompey linger in the air.
**AV writes: A ã2m bid doesn't suggest he is crocked at all. If he was then why would they bid at all? More likely it suggests they know that Boro are increasingly anxious to off-load some or all of their big earners to fund rebuilding, and that such an international player may feel he needs to be in the top flight in a World Cup year so it might be worth a cheeky low bid.
He (Southgate) can't cut it - simple as. The exasperated amongst us are sick and fed up of a useless manager who the longer in the job appears to be getting worse.
His sense of judgement is encapsulated in his assertion that he thinks he's a better manager. For the good of our club he should go NOW.
AV:
I am not saying that Gibson might not have good reasons for appointing and sticking with Southgate. What I am saying is that is quite reasonable for Boro fans to be skeptical of Southgate for quite some time.
However, if he keeps MFC in the top six of the Championship for the next several months, then skeptical fans should give credit where it is due. Failing that, any criticism is reasonable, and people should not attack the fans for those criticisms.
Even with the sale of the most valuable assets, like Downing, Tuncay, and Alves, the remaining players are still largely Premiership calibre. Boro should have the best back four in the Championship without doubt. So, there cannot be any excuse for failure at this point.
But, I do agree that fans should give Southgate credit for any wins, and especially in any period where Boro is in the top six.
Added to the rumours that the likes of Tuncay and Huth are soon set to leave, Pogatetz is also rumoured to be heading to CSKA Moscow.
Boro are in danger of losing momentum and starting the season with a weakened team as the pool of remaining players is not strengthened in time with with new arrivals.
A few injuries and we're down to a cobbled together bare bones team, which I feel makes the policy of no new recruits until players are sold looking too idealistic - after all i'm sure the likes of Hull and Stoke will take our rejects on loan if we don't shift them.
I see Sheffield Utd are reportedly closing in on Beckford and Lita - will we be left making panic buys towards the end of August as our intended targets fail to materialise?
The club shouldn't underestimate the positive effect new signings have on both the remaining players and fans - OK it may come at a price but I'm beginning to be concerned that the cost of waiting could be a negative one that risks the start of the season feeling flat and difficult to recover from.
Pat Mc
I tend to agree with AV that it is possible the ã2million bid for Huth may have been a try on. Somehow other clubs have got the impression that we are brassic and are desperate to sell before we can buy. Cant understand where that came from.
On the other questions raised, I just wonder if O'Neill is having second thoughts about a move back to Pompey. They appear to be in some form of turmoil at the moment and are busy selling what assets they can.
I got a phone call from my scouse colleague about Cattermole. The word on the church roofs in Liverpool is that they are in for Cat. Living in Derby all I ever heard was a bit of gossip that he didn't live the life of a monk. Maybe it was best for him to move away but I cannot make any judgement on that issue. Let us hope that we get some money if he does move on.
It does make you wonder about how well we managed our resources but that is now history. A tough trip to Millwall next and I am sure John Powls will let us know about it on Boro Banter (AV do I get any monies for promoting other parts of your empire?)
I am in a bit of a quandry, I want us to play our strongest team ready for next week but don't want any injuries and I would like some additional players into the squad.
Just read GSs comments on the MFC site
http://www.mfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/NewsDetail/0,,1~1738535,00.html
He said: "Maybe we were a bit short in the PL. maybe we have a stronger squad in this division, but we have to make sure our first 14 or 15 have experience and are well equipped to go straight back up."
There is no maybe about being short in the PL and 14 or 15 players is nowhere near enough for the championship. I thought GS said earlier in the summer that we needed a stronger squad than last season to get promoted.
How does selling Downing and probably Tuncay, Mido and Alves make us stronger?
The squad has already picked up numerous injuries during pre season, so how can having 15 experienced players be any where near enough.
Also the ploy of having to sell before we buy is a big gamble, teams waiting to buy our players will leave it as late as possible to bid, and buy this time GSs targets may well have signed for another club.
C'Mon Boro!
If we sell GON and Huth before next Friday I might officially start becoming negative.
Mido gone well thats great news and if the amount stated on Sky is correct good buisness and goodbye
From Sky Sports:-
"Middlesbrough forward Mido has joined Zamalek on a season-long loan deal, the Egyptian giants have announced.
The 26-year-old, who began his career with the White Knights, will have the option of penning a permanent deal at the end of his loan period, but only if Zamalek meet Boro's terms.
Gareth Southgate's side have pocketed ã4million for the initial switch with a further ã1million to follow if the move is to be extended".
Thank god.
**AV writes: That's ã4m Egyptian pounds down - ã450,000 - with ã1m sterling IF they want to keep him next year. That will barely cover what Boro will need to pay him to go away (a share of his wages plus his loyalty bonus for not asking for a transfer) but it is still good business in my book.
It's started already, square peggism:
GS said: âÂÂAs we go through the season, if we get situations where people are missing through injury, we need players to be adaptable. Good players can play in any position â itâÂÂs about having awareness and a good football brain.âÂÂ
Where is he going to get these players from?
C'Mon Boro!
AV
May be good business in one sense - especially if we're not paying Mido's Gregg's bill! - but I still expect The Count to be sticking to his mantra that Boro can't bring anyone in until they sell.
I hope I'm wrong but I don't see anything happening until Tuncay - at least - has gone. Mind you, even that's better than saying 'we've got Mido off the wage bill, let's go for Webber\Lita\Hughes' that we can get on a free'.
**AV writes: I think you are right that they need to sell either Tuncay or Alves now to actually raise some cash to bring in new bodies but the exit of Mido will ease a lot of the pressure behind the scenes because he was the one that they were really terrified of being stuck with when the music stopped.
AV, I've been scratching my head all morning wondering how Boro managed to loan out Mido for ã4m a year - but now you tell us it's actually Egyptian pounds or about half a million english pounds. I think we can forget about the ã1m buy on clause - he'll have fallen out with the manager long before then.
We should pay him in Egyptian pounds if it doesn't state in his contract that they should be sterling. As for getting a loyalty bonus for not asking for a transfer - what exactly does not turning up to the club until they agree to sell him translate into English as?
At least we know where he gets his name from - where's me dough!
There's nothing wrong with 'square peggism' or versatility as some of us like to call it, as long as the players are good enough. It's pretty stupid to dismiss any attempts at flexibility or suggest that people should only ever play in their designated positions - why limit ourselves?
Anyway as Gareth says - these are top professional footballers - we should expect that they can play in a variety of positions.
Mido - good riddance. I think we will all agree that it's utterly preposterous that he will receive any sort of loyalty bonus.
I thought FIFA rules were that a player going out on loan could not suffer a wage cut even if he was loaned to a league where wages were usually much lower. So Mido may be on loan for a year to an Egyptian side but he will certainly NOT be off Boro's wage bill.
So what's in it for us?
**AV writes: A maverick disruptive influence is removed from the dressing room.
Having listened to a recording of the interview I agree that GS faced some tough questions - far tougher than those fielded by SG.
Just a few points:
1) Re Kens hospital analogy and AV's response - notwithstanding the rookies mitigating circumstances, what happens if the patients desert the hospital in droves? It seems we're then locked in to a downward cycle of falling revenues, lower investment in skilled staff, and more bodies piling up. You could also argue - again - any competent chairman, knowing the cut-backs and quality implications, would have ensured that a vastly experienced hand was wielding the knife
Also, given the trauma and psychological devastation sustained by the mass of patients via the visitors from Cardiff, surely there were ample warning signs of an impending epidemic of Catastrophic Failure
2) Re the Cattermole sell-on clause... AV what is the situation here? No sell-on clause would imply that the club didn't recognise the potential in the asset they off-loaded. What a tragedy that for whatever reasons we weren't able to keep his career on track ourselves - if anyone deals in blood and guts it's Cattermole
3) Re Oldham - this was a little like being haunted by seasons past: seeing again a recurring nightmare that you hoped had been cured by the therapy of 'blind faith', the passage of time and a few 'easy wins'. Then, just when you think it's safe to be optimistic, 'bang' - here we go again...
However, trying to be positive, if I recall, didn't the Chairman indicate (more than once) that for this year at least we would be maintaining the previous years salary budget, and that the team/squad will be stronger this year than last (in 'absolute' not 'relative' terms)?
As the team will now be tackling less demanding challenges, without further reduction in resources, we can hope for fewer cardiac arrests and a high recovery rate. Assuming this, once back in the big league, the question will then be does curing mumps and measels qualify the rookie to be let loose in the Theatre of Screams again?
**AV writes: I am not aware of any sell on clause in the Cattermole deal. There were 'escalators' which meant Boro get more cash when a certain number of games are played... but after only one season those may not yet have been triggered and if he moves on we may not get the extra cash at all.
AV.....Loyalty bonus for not asking for a transfer.......Think u've got that one wrong...He has been asking for a move for about 6 months i believe?
The protection Gareth receives from the Gazette (has any of their reporters ever called for his resignation/sacking ?) together with the 'loyalty' (?) shown by Gibson is going to destroy him and probably the Boro as well.
I'm amazed nobody has broke ranks and spilled the beans on what has been going on over the last two years because we clearly now support a 'Laurel & Hardy' club and there must be some 'cracking stories'.
I'd "love it, love it really love it" to hear Turnbull's version of events and would give anything to hear Gareth justifying the signing of marvelous Marlon King whose 'extra curricular' activities make Lee Cattermole look like St Gary Lineaker.
Come on you LIONS!
It won't be long now before we have a real club again even if it is in the Fizzy Pop league.
**AV writes: Don't you read the paper. Last season the team, the boss and the club as a whole got monstered on a regular basis when it was deserved - but we are not in the business of spleen venting and witch hunting in order to satisfy the blood-lust of one section of the crowd.
On a diplomatic front you can only call for the manager's head once. Such a step is a major strategic and political one and like a national newspaper demanding the head of the PM an editorial decision like that would come right from the top. I am sure it has happened at local papers before but I imagine it would be very rare and only come about in exceptional circumstances.
Besides, so long as the gaffer enjoys the backing of the big boss and it has been made clear that there is no intention to sack him (and Gibbo made that repeatedly clear over the course of last season) what would be gained by such a move other that to leave the paper totally estranged from the club? It might make YOU feel better but it would undermine our service to the readers as a whole.
I cannot believe some of the Southgate support he is receiving in these blogs. Are you all mad? This guy is likely to take us to the third tier of english football.
If you doubt that just consider this what signings has Southgate made for the Boro that have actually improved the position they have been bought for? Since Southgate has taken over the team has absolutely no passion whatsoever.
You would think that behind the scenes its just like Billy Smarts Circus. The players just shrug their shoulders following a poor performance and follow their managers advice of never mind we must do better next time.
Stop bleating on about Cattermole. Hell, Sporting Lisbon would've sold Ronaldo for to Real themselves if we all had crystal balls. He got in trouble the one time he came back from Wigan. Rumours he's off to Liverpool for 12m are as dumb as rumors Huth will leave for just 2m.
Now Vic, is that true about Mido? It's NOT ã4m sterling but 450k??
Anthony - I obviously touched a raw nerve but that's your problem. Of course I read the Gazette. I just don't recall the Gazette ever calling for Gareth to resign or be sacked. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Of course the paper and supporters criticised Gareth's efforts over the course of the last two years it's hardly been a a faultless performance has it ? (Relegation, Cardiff, King, Mido ..... Turnbull .. Alves,... Cattermole) You would need to be completely failing as a newspaper not to criticise such a totally inadequate record. Remember he has had 3 years.
So your stance , to paraphrase is :- "It's a BIG step to call for someone's resignation, it's Steve Gibsons club, and the club wouldn't like it if we called Gareth to go." Truly inspirational !
No wonder the club got relegated with such fatalistic and frightened approach. No wonder Gareth feels as secure as he does. Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger have more to worry about.
**AV writes: You haven't touched a nerve at all. How and why the paper takes it's stance is a perfectly reasonable question at a time of perceived crisis and I thought I gave a perfectly reasonable answer. I'm not avoiding anything, I can talk all day about the dynamics in the political relationship between the clubs and the media and if you want to dig through the archives on here you will find plenty of in-depth analysis of what is a fascinating and complex subject.
Football is an emotive subject and at any given time, barring periods of exceptional success, there will be some sections of supporters angry about one aspect or another of their club: either performances, off the field operations or the latest PR gaffe and invariably they will demand of the local paper "what are you going to do about it?" That is a constant.
But it is not our job to follow the loudest voices or to lead the mob. If it was we would have spent the last two years campaigning against the manager. And the last three years of Steve McClaren's reign. And the last three of Robbo's too. That is not a healthy road to go down as a paper. That is a fanzine's job.
If it reached the stage where there were protests and boycotts and widespread fans' unrest (as it did under Lennie Lawrence) we would report that faithfully and fairly without fear or favour. That's what we do.
Our job first and foremost is to report on what is happening, to add perspective and analysis and get as much information out into the public domain as possible.
If we are to help you piece together the jigsaw we need privileged access and a diplomatic and productive relationship with the club.
That is not to say we are not critical of the club because we are, when and where we believe it is deserved and appropriate, and that is both as individual reporters and the Gazette as a corporate entity.
In fact, the powers that be at the club think we are overly harsh over the past year with them (on results, performances, Lettergate, Mackemgate etc) because they genuinely believe - and with some justification - that a decade of unprecedented success has earned them some leeway and that in recent years they have done well to stay in the Premier League despite seismic shifts in football finances that have left them struggling to stay the pace.
I think of my own position as 'critical support'. I try to look at the unfolding situation as objectively as possible and add some context and perspective to the debate. Sometimes that means I am seen to be opposing the club and I get stick from them and sometimes it means I am seen to be supporting the club and I get stick from some sections of the fans (and often at the same time.)
Personally I would be very uncomfortable in calling for anyone to get the sack. That's just the way I am. In that sense I am not very tabloid. I would have no problem in outlining the thinking in exactly why others - that is supporters like yourself - are calling for that but equally I would have no problem in balancing that with outlining exactly what the club's thinking is in sticking with their man.
For me that is what my role is about: balance, objectivity, perspective and as fair a reflection of the intensity and breadth of spectrum of debate as I think is possible.
Rest in Peace Sir Bobby Robson. A legend and a gentleman.
You haven't got a monopoly on objectivity. My view is based on a measured and objective stance. I also think the emotional language you use to describe those who feel Gareth should be sacked - 'mobs', 'witch hunt' suggests you are not as impartial as you like to think you are.
Personally I have supported Gareth Southgate for three years. Seems like a genuine guy. He's not got the aptitude for football management, he's been a disaster. I suspect I'm not alone in thinking that.
As for your comments about sacking and feeling uncomfortable about it, I share your sentiments but would be more worried about the fans losing their jobs than Gareth. Let's not get too weepy about it, he's probably earned ã10m out of the Boro and good luck to him.
When he does go I look forward to reading your 'exit piece'
Scoredraw:
I dont think the Gazette's role is to be Greenham Common on Tees with protesters, VW campers, beards and sandals littered around their offices.
The role I want them to take is of informing us of things Boro and encouraging debate on mediums such as this. There will different levels within their coverage.
Uncle Eric will continue to be BoroPhils favourite journalist and AV will pose the more caustic questions but they cannot operate without dialogue with the Supreme Soviet.
We cannot afford open warfare between the Gazette and the club, I for one do not wish to rely on MFC for my information. My trips to the website are to monitor fixtures and tickets, the injury bulletin for a chuckle and Boro World to listen to commentary.
Big Sam refused to talk to the BBC in Newcastle and that certainly didnt help his cause.
That doesn't mean the club shouldn't be criticised, that tends to appear in this medium rather than the Uncle Eric articles (that isn't his role) though an 'unacceptable' and 'not good enough' in his articles still bear the stamp of disapproval. The Talking Boro videos where he who shall not be named, Bernie, showed that debate does take place and that Gate is a very lucky man to still be employed.
If the Gazette get into conflict with MFC we will lose any insight into what goes on in the club, we already sense how precious the power brokers are within the club. Make no mistake, I am sure Bausor and co even recognise some of our names, they may act as if we dont exist but they will be aware of what is written here, ComeonBoro, Fmttm etc.
Scoredraw:
I dont see why you keep banging on about why the Gazette isn't calling for Southgate's head. It's a totally pointless discussion.
At the end of last season the man who owns our football club lock stock and barrell made a decision which was that Southgate would continue into this season and made it clear what the minimum expectation was. Southgate himself has stated or as good as stated that the club must be challenging at the right end of the table otherwise he is expecting he might not be around much longer.
I'm sure Gibson realised that such a decision has probably cost him at least 1500 season ticket renewals and personally I dont think I'd have made the same decision. Because of the problems in getting players out and in my guess is that Southgate has 12-15 games to show we are going to be in the mix.
The fact of the matter is that this scenario was clear at the end of May [from Gibson's interview]. We have not kicked a competitive ball since so chill out .Lets see what our squad looks like at the end of the transfer window and where we are the league by early October.
So, it appears that the Downing money has just been swallowed up and we have to accept it. However, what we don't have to accept is the message it sends the the fans. That is that the team is way down on the list on Gibbo's priorities.
Remember, a few weeks ago it looked as though Downing would be with us until January 2010, therefore the club were clearly prepared to manage without the ã10m that eventually did come from his sale. So, logic dictates that if they could do without ã10m a few weeks ago then the club could do without it until January.
Running that line of thinking through then why isn't the Downing money being used to buy the players the club is crying out for now, in particular a centre forward who can hold the ball up and score goals in this division.
We come back to my answer at the beginning, the team is just not a priority anymore. This sell before we buy just doesn't wash. We all know that Mido, Tuncay, Alves and a few more will not be at the club on the 1st September even if they go out on loan.
I hope there is a sell on clause in the Cattermole & Morrison deals, if not then it was either left out by neglect or because the club was so desperate for the money the buying clubs dictated terms to Boro. Mido's deal must also have a sell on clause or else we will find him being sold for a profit next year and scoring goals in the Premiership for someone like Fulham.
**AV writes: You can only stick a clause like that in if the other club agree. Would you want the Mido deal to fall through because of that?
Rumours that Gary O'Neil is the subject of a ã4m bid from Besiktas - I believe that's pounds sterling, this time! Wonder of that's why the 'diplomatic' absence at Oldham and today.
Big blow if he goes - halfway to officially negative by BoroPhil, if nothing else!
scoredraw:
''As for your comments about sacking and feeling uncomfortable about it, I share your sentiments but would be more worried about the fans losing their jobs than Gareth. Let's not get too weepy about it, he's probably earned ã10m out of the Boro and good luck to him.''
Couldn't agree more.
I would also add that the fact Southgate is being allowed to keep the job despite his inability to manage or motivate, is keeping someone else that is more capable, out of the job. Now how is that something to feel 'comfortable' about?
The closer to the start of the season we get, without seeing an influx of much-needed new faces, the more worried I become about the forthcoming season.
All we hear is talk of moves for Alves, Tuncay etc. Nothing actually happens. Mido is apparently off on loan again, with the hope of finally selling him, and we take a loss of ã4.5m plus his wages to get shot of him.
Boro's transfer deals are usually very poor buys, and result in loss of money to get rid of players we should never have bought in the first place.
I would far rather the RESERVES were simply promoted to the first team, after all, that is what they are there for. No more square pegs, thank you. Just play people in their natural positions if they are available.
Lets face it MFC are finished. SG should have sold the club two years ago. GS has no charisma and the players don't want to play for him.The club went down without a whimper after 11 seaons in the PL.G S will not be sacked by SG as GS does what he is told. MFC will be playing Darlington and Hartlepool in the not to distant future. No wonder there is growing apathy amongst fans. What have they got to look forward to?
Referencing the Gazette v. MFC stance, the Gazette is a newspaper which exists to report news and not to make it.
Certain tabloids "spin" the news and even try to manipulate world leaders and the outcome of wars. That is not their role and thankfully the Gazette tries to report objectively rather than subjectively.
The fact they provide the basis for this forum is of far greater value than a few damaging articles. The views of one reporter is easy to dismiss but the views of many fans in print is something else. I empathise with Scoredraw's opinions and frustrations with the club but just don't think it's the role of the Gazette to light the torches for the mob.
In light of what happened in the past with Bernie and Century it's pretty obvious who owns the toys and the pram and it ultimately created a barrier. Sadly Bernie's frustrations were not heeded way back then and if so we might not be where we are now, the stance adopted by the club was inward looking and chose the relative safety (not to mention our perception of greater control) of Auntie Beeb.
We all long for the Gibbo of old who rescued and rebuilt the club we love, we all long for the Southgate of old who led inspirationally on the pitch. Both of those have gone (hopefully to return this season although I doubt it).
It's very clear we have financial pressures, the Downing cash probably clears the Alves debt (perhaps only a part), Mido has cost us ã6M (and a lot more in wages), Tuncay is not yet sold and it is probably only his sale that may generate a fund for transfers in.
Saying that, SG and his other business interests have been bailing us out for over a decade, it is not unreasonable for him to need some payback to keep those interests afloat through these difficult times. I think we owe him that.
What's left then is freebies and low cost (e.g. Yeates and Coyne) transfers in. My big concern is Lita is the type of player we need but not the player we want. We have had a bellyfull of sulky strikers with attitude added to off pitch antics. If Gareth couldn't handle Catts and Mido and Coppell had no time for Lita then thats all we need to know. Marlon King is successful at this level but again I doubt there would be many at the club or on the terraces that would want him back.
So that leaves us shopping at Lidl and Netto instead of Waitrose and Sainsburys (unless of course we can pick up a few "whoopsies" or a few "use by" dates). This is the apparent reality of MFC 2009, not as bad as MFC 1986 but nowhere near those heady, halcyon days of 2004/5.
My frustration towards MFC 2008/9 is as strong as ever but back in our darkest days it was our young lads that fought our way back up, perhaps, Wheats, Tayls, McMahon, Hines, Walker, Williams, Franks, Grounds, Porrit and co. can repeat history?
Ian Gill: What valuable insights do we get from the cosy 'embedded' relationship the Gazette has with the Boro ? Please don't mention 'away strips' and badge changes.
Stockton Red:
Don't be so submissive. Steve Gibson is owner supremo', gaffer and all those other macho terms but so what ? In footballing terms he's got one foot in the grave and the other on a banana skin.
And if you don't agree with me ask 'Cockney Mike' Ashley up the road.
I like Gibson, seems like a good man, love the work he's done in the community and the pastoral approach to our great young players.
But he's USELESS at picking football managers !!!!!!!
I'm sending myself to Coventry for while so as not to annoy.
Scoredraw thinks the Gazette should take his own particular line or they are not doing their job properly. Does he think then that he encapsulates the thinking of the majority of the fans? That he speaks for the supporters and the people of Teesside? That he alone should have his views represented by the press and anything less is spin or editorial cowardice?
AV suggested the Gazette would give coverage to any fans' protests... but where are they? There were no boycotts, banners, sustained chanting. Not even a season card thrown at the dug-out. Maybe not everyone is as angry or as overtly against Southgate (and by implication Gibson) as he presumes.
We have seen this before at the Riverside with Steve McClaren. A similar impatient and permanently angry section of congential whingers were voicing similar views and mistakenly believed their volume made for a consensus. It didn't and thank God.
If the Gazette had followed their lead then and demanded McClaren was sacked there may have been no Cardiff, no highest PL finish, no Europe, no Eindhoven.
Sometimes we as fans have to accept that the people who run the club do actually know more than us about what is going on and they have more at stake in getting it right. And also that they have a far better record in getting it right than those faint-hearts who scream for sackings at the first sign of things getting a bit sticky.
Some people need lessons in real politik. As has been pointed out Gibson has made it clear what he expects this season and has said if it isn't delivered he will make changes. Southgate has echoed this. It is quite clear that if we are not pushing for promotion Gibson will swing the axe.
So what is to be gained in the local paper trying to pre-empt that? I think the Gazette is duty bound to support the manager ex-officio so long as he is place.
And I think Gibson has nerves of steel. He will sack Southgate if he thinks it is neccessary but he won't be stampeded into it by loudmouth fans or by the Gazette.
Scoredraw:
I live 140 miles away and have three main sorts of information about the Boro.
1. MFC themselves. Sod that for a game of marbles
2. BBC Tees with Ali Brownlee
3. The Gazette.
I prefer option three
I am not bothered about their contribution to away shirts and badges. I take what is said with a pinch of salt but at least it isnt straight from the horses mouth.
A Gazette campaign to get Gate out will just result in them going the same way as Bernie and what little information with some degree of impartiality I do get will disappear.
Gibbo will not be swayed by Eric or Vic but he will by results. He is one of us and equally stubborn.
I want Gate to succeed but not because I am a believer in blind faith but the fact that if he goes he will walk away with plenty of spondoolies and we will be in a mess.
Getting John Powls texts from Millwall and reading the brief half time report on the website we have plenty on our plate with less than a week to go to Sheff Utd game.
I cant get a commentary from BoroWorld or BBC Tees so feel hacked off anyway. I suppose it isnt like the battering of Bolton when we scored four in the first half and I had to listen to the Toon commentary. Back to try and get the commentary again.
Tees Exile:
"Stampeded into it ?" Stampeded ? 11 successive away defeats!
Stampeded ? Relegated
Stampeded ? "Judge me at the end of the season ..."
Stampeded ? "Cardiff"
Stampeded ? Absolutely laughable
I am on a Boro blog aren't I ?
I have this horrible dream like feeling that I have accidently logged onto the Barcelona Blog and can't understand why people are resisting my call to sack the manager ?
As for me being a lone eccentric 'loudmouth' has there been a poll on Gareth's position ?
Tees Exile:
Were you referring to me when you said "some people need lessons in real politik" ?
I need lessons?? You are pedaling the virtues of Gareth as a manager, we've just been relegated, any decent players we have are saying sayonara and you think I need lessons in Real Politik ?
Tees Exile:
You think I need lessons in 'Real Politik' ?
You're pedaling the virtues of Gareth as a manager, we've just been relegated, all our decent players are on their way out and you think I could benefit from a dose of Real Politik ?
Have you been doing a lot of bungee jumping recently ?
Yes scoredraw, you need lessons in real politik. And in comprehension.
First comprehension. Where exactly have I pedalled the virtues of Southgate as a manager? I have just pointed out that whatever the levels of anger among some fans, whatever the concerns for the future, any decision on the manager will not be forced by either the Gazette parroting your emotive position or by uber chicken-runners denouncing others fans who are not as conspicuously furious as yourself as somehow 'soft' on failure or as ra-ras.
You must not make the mistake of thinking that because people do not jump to your particular tune they are not upset, disappointed or concerned for the future. Maybe they just realise that becoming hysterical and making unrealistic demands will not make a scrap of difference.
That is where the real politik comes in. Newcastle fans had their tear stained public protests, demonstrations and 'boycoutts' but did it bring Keegan back? Or get Ashley out? No. Those days are gone. Football is a big money game now and unless fans can really hit the club where it hurts they are powerless.
The bottom line is this: Steve Gibson will decide. Not me or you and not the Gazette. You can either accept that and get on with following the team in a constructive way or you can become bitter and frustrated, start to hate the club for not matching up to your ambitions and take it out on others who you think are not as fanatical.
My guess is that you are already well down the path to the latter.
Scoredraw
Nice one mate, well said
I'll have a pint of whatever youv'e been drinking.
Tees Exile said: "The bottom line is this: Steve Gibson will decide. Not me or you and not the Gazette."
And I think this is the root of the problem. One man's views taking precedence over many others. When MFC show signs of actively listening, entrenched views may soften but until then .....
My heart sides with scoredraw. What has happened in the last three years has been a slow motion car crash and even if you think there are mitigating circumstances you still have to point a finger at the driver. The Gazette should be doing that for me.
But my head knows that Tees Exile is right. It doesn't matter how angry we are or what AV and Eric write in the paper, Gibbo will still be the one who decides on Southgate.
If anything, knowing how stubborn he is (and look how he stuck with Robbo and McClaren despite the booing) if the Gazette demanded Southgate's head you could see him digging his heels in just to show who is boss, even if cost the club big time.
The one thing that gives you hope is that Gibbo has publicly said that if we are not up there and challenging he will take action. He has prepared the ground. Poor results and poor crowds are more likely to get shot of Southgate than any story.
I'll never get sick of defending this position because, in principle, it's right and just!
It's Gibson that's at the heart of the issues surrounding Boro. It's not Southgate!
Gibson appointed Southgate and he stands by Southgate - and rightly so, for the time being.
The environment in which Southgate has had to work is Gibson's creation. Gibson's financial constraints dictate how the club is run - not Gareth Southgate. If Gareth Southgate had a free reign to do whatever he liked, don't you suppose he might be buying players that HE wanted - not what the club said it could afford and that looked as though it might be value for money, within a restricted financial budget? Look at Mark Hughes. Is Mark Hughes relying on his coaching abilities first and foremost to build a successful club? Is he hell! He's buying up the world!
You can say what you like, but if you're honest with yourselves, I think we all expected Alves and Mido to be better for us than they turned out. And when injuries set in, the depth of the squad and the quality of the reserves simply wasn't good enough to cut it in the Premier League.
And the residual changing-room leadership with the departure of the high earners was a further consequence of that policy - a Gibson requirement, which Southgate was required to fulfill as part of his managerial responsibilities - in direct response to Gibson's requirements.
Finance and policy - both under Steve Gibson's control as club owner!
And I expect Gibson and Southgate would have expected Mido and Alves to have been better too. Otherwise Gibson wouldn't have signed the cheques - or authorised Lamb to sign them.
Having to sell before we buy is NOT a Southgate-imposed restriction!
Reduction in running costs is NOT a Southgate -imposed restriction!
Reduction in debt levels is NOT a Southgate-imposed restriction!
The principal architect of all that goes on at MFC, good and bad, is Steve Gibson.
He stood up and took the plaudits during the good times. He is the one who ought now to be taking the flak - if any flak is due!
And behind the scenes, Gibson knows this! That's why he hasn't sacked Southgate! Because Gibson is actually an honourable man caught up in a field of business that has been in an inflationary spiral (The Premier League) and due to pressures on other parts of his considerable commercial interests, he has been forced to cut back - hard.
Disappointing though it may be, reality it most certainly is.
But pinning Boro's "misfortunes" or setbacks on the wrong culprit is NOT right, irrespective of the depth of feeling around!
**AV writes: I agree with most of that . And that is why people demanding Gibson sacks Southgate (or that the Gazette demand it) are missing the point. There is a far bigger picture at Boro - and within the political economy of football as a whole - that will not be fundamentally redrawn just by replacing the manager.
So Boro have wasted little time in getting a replacement for Mido as it's been reported that Lita has had a medical today.
What's hard to fathom is that Lita has been widely described as a disruptive influence - have we just replaced Mido with a cheaper imitation? Surely Boro are not that stupid or maybe it's a sign of desperation - Let's hope he's just been misrepresented.
As for the rumour that O'Neil is set for a move to Besiktas - are we to believe that Gary 'homesick' O'Neil and the family who couldn't settle in the North-East are about to move to Turkey instead? I no longer understand how the brains of so called football people think - maybe they just don't.
**AV writes: To be fair there has been no suggestion as yet that O'Neil is considering such a move or even that any bid has been made, just that Besiktas may be "weighing up" a move. But yes, it would be an awkward commute.
What a crock.
Southgate is without doubt the worst manager ever.
He can be as articulate and sincere as he likes and the people in here on his side are either all from St Lukes or they are just sheep.
This man pinned every single action on building a team for last season upon which he was to be judged, and judged he was and we went down. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors in my book and although it absolutely pains me to say this I hope we get off to the worst start possible so that the pressure of the fans finally gets rid of this inept manager.
He said that we were to judge him last season and then instead of doing the honourable thing that he said he would do he hung around like a really bad smell.
Under Southgate we won't even reach the play offs next year.
I have been against him from day one. I was right then and I am right now.
I can't wait to see the back of him.
TB
Richard:
Using your rationale Bill Kenright must be responsible for the Everton success ? I'll bet they are terrified he might leave.
Roy Hodgson will be disheartened to find out it's not his football judgement and overall intellect that brought success but Fayhads millions !
You give away a lot when you say "you will never grow tired of defending this ....."
That's the point; you should be tired of mediocrity (mido-ocrity).
I don't expect Gareth to win a bidding war for David Villa and persuade him to ignore Man Utd and join Boro. But sweet Jesus give me some fragment of hope not Marlon King and a lecture on economics.
And another thing - No community in Europe knows more about harsh economic realities and realism than the FANTASTIC people of Teesside. So cut out the patronising 'flannel on "financial models' 'Brands' (Gareth/Gazzette/Gibson).
I find the passive acceptance of such bone aching pessimism clinically depressing. It's almost taken the edge off the bacon sandwich I'm about to 'address'.
Tees Exile:
So you think asking for the removal of GS is unreasonable ? Hmmm.
I'm not as angry you like to suggest - but I agree I'm not a spittin image John Major "nice peas" type either. If you are as 'dissapointed' how do you show it? Mow the lawn I suspect. Relegated ! - oh dear that hedge needs trimming.
Thnks for the lessons in 'comprehension' and 'real politik' - you can see the benefits already don't you agree ?
Richard:
Using your argument Bill Kenright is responsible for Evertons success. I'll bet they are terrified he might leave ? Roy Hodgson will be dissapointed to find out it's not his football knowledge and intellect that brought Fulham's recent success but Fayhad's millions. Interesting? I suppose you think anyone could achieve Fergusons success with the Glazers backing ?
Forgive the textual analysis but you give away a lot when you say "you will never get tired of defending... GS/SG .... That's the point - you SHOULD be tired of such mediocrity. It's not a sign of disloyalty.
To The Gazette:
May I make an appeal ? In your football coverage please don't include so much flannel and spin about 'economic models', 'brands' 'revenue streams'.
No community in Western Europe knows more about harsh economic realities and 'realism' than the fantastic people of Teesside. It's phoney and insulting. Besides you only talk in slogans and no real financial information is ever forthcoming.
Write about football ? Forgive me for aping your patronising ways but why don't you do an article about players who have left the Boro (Morrison, Cattermole, Woodgate, Davies, Downing) Maybe ask them a searching question or two ? Finish off with do you miss Parmo's?
Ask (demand ?) Gareth to assess his efforts in the transfer market in and out.
Tees Exile:
Your perception of the state of play at Newcastle is truly humorous. You swallow anything that comes from 'official sources' don't you ?
You seem to think that Mike Ashley still 'controls' the fiefdom of NU. He OWNS Newcastle Utd, he's RESPONSIBLE for Newcastle Utd but it's clear he's not in CONTROL of it.
It's worth is diminishing by the second. He CAN'T give it away !!!!!
When he invested 100's of millions in 'The Mags' he thought he was getting a gold mine. What he's bought is the footballing equivalent of Afghanistan.
No one can rule Afghanistan not even the Afghans.
Rather than give me lectures on 'Big Money' I suggest you look more closely at the experience of Mike Ashley. The raggy Afghans of Newcastle will get their way !
Guys,
regarding getting what you want at MFC (sackings, resignations, players and the Gazette to do what you want...) it's all so simple - just write a cheque for about ã40-100 million and buy the club. Then you can do what you want.
If not, it's time to accept this.. The fact is Gibbo owns the show and so can run it how he sees fit - and if we don't like it and want instant success etc then we should go and support Manchelarsepool city.
But I don't want to do that, so I'll stick with Gibbo, MFC and I'll always love my Boro. I'll be up at 4am Saturday waking up the neighbourhood and screaming at/for whoever is wearing our red and white. As long as we win I don't care who plays and if we don't win enough then I will rely on Gibbo to follow through with what he has said and replace GS.
Meanwhile roll on.... less than a week to go... C'mon Boro
So scoredraw, if you get your way Boro fan power will get rid of this boss, undermine the next, leave the chairman isolated and powerless and bring the club to its knees as an ungovernable and worthless basketcase and laughing stock of the nation. Way to go.
Shocking performance at Millwall yesterday in a poor game overall. Only second half subs Gary O'Neil and Rhys Williams came out with any sort of credit.
The best you can say, after what I witnessed yesterday afternoon, is that there's a lot of work to do in less than a week, otherwise The Blades will live up to their name and cut Boro to bits.
And now the Sunday newspapers are saying that we've 'won the race' for Lita. Much the same use of the phrase as if one was to say we 'won the race' for relegation last season.
Having just - well, subject to confirmation, - moved on one non-scoring trouble-making misfit it seems we're about to recruit another. And he's not even the big target man that we need at least one, if not two, of as a priority.
What goes on?
The problem with anger is that it makes people say and advocate irrational things that they later regret.
Surely scoredraw you are not suggesting that the fans and the Gazette combine to reduce Boro to the chaotic Afghanistan you say Newcastle now is?
To what end? Fan power? The fans can't agree on a team, a badge, a shirt or a transfer target let alone a sustainable route forward. Would you really leave Gibson neutered and our club in a state of damaging Geordie-like limbo just to get rid of Southgate?
Why? The chairman has already said publicly Southgate will be gone if he does not deliver. Don't you believe him? His track record is impeccable. He has delivered time and again for this club and I have no doubt whatsoever he will do what is neccessary.
Or are you one of these conspiracists who think Gibson is bound on bankrupting his own club for some secret financial gain?
Tees Exile:
No I don't want a storming of the Bastille or Gibsons head on plate. You ignore the fact that I think Steve Gibson seems like a good bloke and genuine by most measures.
All I would like is for someone else to do Gareth's job. Simple really and I know I'm not part of an eccentric flint hearted minority.
I've spent too long boringly trying to convince you AV, Ste Mac et al why Gareth should go. May I suggest you, AV or anyone give me 3 reasons why we should stick with Gareth? Being big hearted I'll help you out with first one:
1. Steve Gibson told me to.
2.
3.
Scoredraw:
2. Borophil thinks he has done a good job.
3. We might get Graham Souness.
The problem we have is that there are three camps.
Those who think he should be sacked now; those who think he is damn lucky to be in a job and faced with the fact he is staying want him to well otherwise we will be deep in the brown stuff ; and then those who cant see what the problem is.
A week is a long time in politics, six days in football is worryingly short. Even the MFC report did not enthuse about our performance at Millwall.
I suspect the middle group is the biggest. I also suspect that, from the evidence of the pre season, as we have played better teams our shortcomings have become even more apparent.
"I hope we get off to the worst start possible"
I think this comment speaks for itself...
Scoredraw, that (1) is actually good enough for me. Call me naive, call me a ra-ra, say I am high on the fumes from my foam fingers if you like but as far as I am concerned Gibbo has never let us down.
New ground, new era, new horizons, new success. World class stars. A trophy. Europe. And all the way through the impossible to please Slavenites moaned and groaned about "failure to achieve" and said him and Lambie were ruining the club. What a joke.
For me, he has given enough to the club to have earned the benefit of the doubt. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ungrateful and has forgotten how far we have come. If he still thinks Southgate is the man then I'll support him on that.
Someone higher up pointed out that fans like you had decided that McClaren was not up to the job, was negative, tactically inept and had to go before the world caved in... but even after that Gibbo stuck by his man and delivered Cardiff and Europe.
And that TB is a joke. He always has been. He has been against Southgate from day one because he binned his mate Missimo. He would rather see Boro struggle and lose games heavily than see Southgate lead a promotion push just so he can say "I told you so." That sickens me.
I don't know which group I fall into. I have slagged Southgate off but if he is still here in May I will be happy enough because it will mean we've been promoted.
Where people get the idea from that Gibbo is soft I don't know. If he needs to sack Southgate he will do it as and when. Why get your knickers in a twist making demands now?
I don't know which group I fall into. I have slagged Southgate off but if he is still here in May I will be happy enough because it will mean we've been promoted.
Where people get the idea from that Gibbo is soft I don't know. If he needs to sack Southgate he will do it as and when. Why get your knickers in a twist making demands now?
Craig B, what should sicken you is that we:
A, employed this guy
B, Gave him so much time and allowed him to waste so much money on the likes of Mido, Shawky and the like
C, Didn't sack him when we could have still survived
D, Not given him the boot we he got us relegated.
He bought the players, he managed them, he got us relegated. You can use all the big words you like and put whatever kind of " nice guy talks frankly to Brownlee " you want on it, but the end result is that we went down and we rewarded utter failure when we should have sacked him and everyone else.
Yes, I want us to lose heavily so that this guy and all the rest get the boot and that we recover and go straight back up.
You think what you like and all the cheap jibes in the world don't effect me one bit. All I'm interested in is getting back where we belong and it ain't never going to happen with Gareth bloody Southgate at the helm.
I'm a joke??? Please. Do me a favour. People like you make me sick as you're just happy to go with the flow and haven't got a clue what you're on about.
WE. WERE. RELEGATED. What part of that don't you people understand? And please don't talk about this big plan that AV is always banging on about as sitting in the Championship it just seems to have spectacularly gone all wrong to me.
SOUTHGATE AND EVERYONE OUT ASAP - and if that means losing five on the trot then so be it, as long as he and all the rest go so that we can go back to being a proper football club again run by people with half a clue and get back to where we belong in the quickest possible time.
I hated the way that McClaren played the game but I would take him back now with absolutely open arms if it was a case of him or Gates.
TB
Let's stop moaning. The season starts soon and we all need to support our Boro.
Craig B - never, never has SG let us down. So I totally agree with you and hence support GS as our manager.
Up the Boro!
Gareth Southgate has been doing the job as Boro manager with his hands tied behind his back. Not once has he complained or tried to hide behind excuses. Every step of the way he has been upfront and never afraid to stand up in front of his critics. This attitude will, in the long run benefit the football club.
To all the detractors, what would a replacement manager do with the resources available? I don't need to name all the players who have failed to deliver, I'm sure they are etched on everyones mind.
Come on everyone, get behind the team and here's to a successful season.
"For me, he has given enough to the club to have earned the benefit of the doubt. Anyone who thinks otherwise is ungrateful and has forgotten how far we have come. If he still thinks Southgate is the man then I'll support him on that."
That sums up my position. I actually object to the use of the 'blind faith' phrase - backing Gibson isn't blind at all, it's based on the success he has brought to this club over a number of years and trust that he will make the right decisions.
For the record Ian, over his three years, I don't think Gareth has done a good job - otherwise we wouldn't be in the Championship - but I think he deserves one chance to sort it out.
Southgate asked us to judge him last season. I did. He was rubbish. He should have walked. He's a millionaire business man so why is he hanging onto this job of ruining our football club?
He had more than enough resources last season to get us into mid table. But he totally wasted them. I feel sorry for Gibson and Lamb. Am I the first person to ever say that about Keith Lamb? I should get a prize.
Back to Southgate - No tactics. No motivation. No man-management. That is why we went down. Not the bank balance. He sold good players, kept bad ones. And then bought some terrible players just to add to the mess. The trend continues...
Im giving GS one game to prove there are signs of a change. This friday. If the team still come out de-motivated and dis-organised then I give up. One game Southgate not 12. Why is Gibbo giving him 12 games anyway??? Any chance of doing something with this season will be long gone by then.
Oh, and if the GS post match comments talk is of ''lessons'' (as I sickenly feel it will be)- then can I have another prize please?
I wish I could look forward to this season, but until we hire a proper football manager, its not going to much fun.
It's interesting to see how we're viewed from an outside point of view.
Just going on the Sheffield United forums the other day and the vast majority felt they wouldn't get anything from us at The Riverside come Friday. Some are frustrated at losing out on Lita and admitted it was 'inevitable' that they wouldn't get their man when a 'big ambitious side came in for him'.
Many replied to my post on Boro's current plight that they felt we would 'comfortably get promoted' with the likes of Wheater, O'Neil,Johnson, Digard, Huth. Many complimented how well Grounds, Williams etc had done in this league on loan and felt they'd walk into their sides.
I found it slightly comforting to see their attitudes were familiarly-Boro-esque in their overall attitude to their current status, chairman,players and recent sales! Perhaps it isn't only ourselves who are partial to a spot of doom-mongering after all then!
I find myself in the middle of the two camps that are apparent. I agree that there were Slavenistas who moaned their way through the clubs most successful ever period. It sickened me to hear such pessimism droaning from the terraces during two European campaigns. You just can't please some people. I said at the time, and i'll say again, Cardiff and Eindhoven will very likely never ever happen again.
However, I admit like many that Southgate should have gone a long time ago. Our worst away run since world war 2 and relegation was simply not good enough and anyone else would have been sacked. Similarly, other than Tuncay, name one good purchase the man has made? Ok, got that, well compare that to the number of bad signings he's made? Yes i think you get the picture.
However, Gibson has backed him and we have to take it really, irrelevant of our individual stance on the matter. We need to get behind the team on Friday and hope for the best really. If it all goes wrong, hopefully Gibson will be true to his word, and Southgate will be gone.
One final thing, I really hope the muted expected attendance of 15000 to be wide of the mark this year. Thats utterly pathetic and if we get that many show up this year then we don't deserve to go back up.
Derby averaged 30000 last year,Sheff U 26000,Norwich 24500,Forest 22500,Charlton n Ipswich 21000 so hopefully it won't be the reported 15000 which the likes of Preston and Swansea were averaging.
Up the Boro for Friday.2-1!
People who say Gareth had to manage the club with his hands tied behind his back are being rather selective in their view.
The reality is that he spent over ã30m on just five players with no doubt decent wages to boot: Alves, Mido, Emnes, Digard and O'Neil - none of whom were able to settle in the side or produce what their pricetags indicated.
Allowing for ins and outs Boro have spent more than David Moyes at Everton - so lets not fall for Southgate's spin that it was the constraints that did for him. Though perhaps the reason he is still in place is possibly that the decision to bring these players in was not his.
Steve Gibson has proved over the years that he is a decent man with a sense of civic duty and pathalogical loyalty to his manager. Southgate has also demonstrated that he is also an articulate man of good moral standing.
Whether these attributes of these men are what is needed to have a successful football club is debatable - Personally, I believe these are just nice add-ons and it will take a lot more nous to take our small club in europe back to the place we once were.
So SG and GS need to demonstrate pretty soon that they have what it takes as what's left of their support is only on a 'wait and see' basis and there is no more wriggle room available.
BoroPhil
The most important person, Gibbo, wants to give him the chance to turn it round and that is the end of the matter.
I am getting a sneaking feeling that the purse strings are knotted to leave room to move in the future. I cant justify it and have no knowledge of the finances, living 140 miles away (make that 135 to the edge of Gibbo's Boroland) I have no gossip to rely on, it is just a gut feeling.
**AV writes: Ah, the Lawrence gambit...
Will the Alves banner be changed to "Rhys Williams - goal machine"?
If we stay clear of injuries this week I think we can put out a strong enough side to beat the blades
C'Mon Boro!
Come on. 3 good reasons to keep Gareth ? Anything goes !
For example:
"Even though we got relegated and spent millions on players, our best players are fighting to get out I think we should stick with Gareth because" :
1. It's better than having Noel Edmonds in charge.
2. Who would Arsenal sell all their 2nd string players to ?
3. I like his haircut and clothes
Or
1. Cardiff, WBA, Bolton, Wigan, Chelsea, Newcastle, Sunderland, Stoke, West Ham, Blackburn, Pompey, Tottenham and Hull games were all aberrations !!!I
2. It could be worse at least we haven't got Frank Bruno as manager.
3. He's doing a good job making sure Boro people are well represented in the premiership - Downing, Woodgate, Cattermole, Turnbull ..
AV
Lawrence gambit, never though of naming it that. It was just a thought in passing as I waited on the phone 'your call is important to us, one of our advisers will be available to help you as soon as possible', more than likely about as wide of the mark as our strikers.
Still, it might provoke some debate. Any news on our potential signing, Striker Lite?
If southgate goes can we trust gibson to choose another? Despite how much i appreciate what he has done for boro, his manager choices have all been poor. He likes to gamble on unproven talent so is always taking a big risk and i dont think any of them have paid off considering the amount of money we have spent.
Robson spent lots on attacking players failing to provide a solid defence until it was to late and was tactically inept.
McClaren, was looking at his own future rather than the clubs and spent millions on an old team to get instant success with no long term plan.
Southgate poor tactics, poor signings, so far the worst of a bad bunch.
Gibsons probably hanging on until another mild mannered ex-international retires.
Brad Jones out for three weeks after damaging an ankle.
Gives Coyne a chance to establish hinself in the team.
C'Mon Boro!
Talking about gut instinct from a distance (and let's face it, when it comes to 'gut' Ian and I are either well-equipped or significantly challenged - depending on how PC you want to be) and 'the Lawrence gambit' that gave AV a 'Bisto moment', what about the Alan Smith mystery?
I have also come to the conclusion that the reason Gate finds it so hard to say what the Alan Smith role is (rather than what it isn't) is not because the the other two wheels on the MFC Reliant Robin have him down as a spare third wheel if they have to get rid of Gate.
Put simply, he is there because he's an ally for Gate to give him support against the other two in areas where he's got the potential capability but not the understanding/experience (the football/business side) and, to an extent, to tackle the 'enforcer' issues with other football staff in the bootroom and backroom that Gate may find difficult.
Again - no evidence; just gut instinct. I wonder who's paying Smith's fees, though - MFC or Gate?
Whatever the issues, however, my bigger concern is that we have an opener on Friday evening against one of the main challengers for a promotion spot and the performance that I witnessed at Millwall with what could well be the starting line up against The Blades was deeply scary.
If you add onto that the rumours about Lita you can - and should - forget the recriminations about the past.
We've got enough problems in the here and now to worry about.
AV, after all this useless (I mean Gibbo decides here) argueing about the sacking of 'Gate I would like to know more about the injuries to Tuncay and Alves. Are they available as subs for Friday?
Even they want away they both could be better than ANY striker in the second tier this season. I hope they get some games behind their belts soon.
Looking forward to the season. Up the Boro!
Talking about scary - Gate's assessment of the dross served up at Millwall was that 'if we'd come here in a league game and come back to get a one all draw we'd be satisfied.'
What, against a League One side who were far from at their best and with the first Boro attempt on goal that needed a save not arriving until seventy minutes?
Much more like that and Boro will be going back there for league games - and not because Millwall are promoted!
AV - if Alves and Tuncay are fit and have not been sold by the Sheff U match, will they be considered for selection?
If not, what happens if they are both still at the Boro at the end of August?
Will they be welcomed back into the first team squad?
Lita could be our Slaven, but whose going to be our Wilko?
Just to change the subject ever so slightly whilst I've never been one to get carried away with preseason matches/results it is quite clear there are a number of pressing problems.Southgate himself said we needed to add experience and needed to make sure we could deal with the "physicality" of the league.
We have not added experience and we look no better equipped to deal with a scrap than we were last season.
Regardless of which of the possible departees actually go 5 days before the start of the season the following two positions are a MUST
1.A big forward that can head a ball and hold it up.
2.A central midfielder with experience that can win the ball,hold his position and
distribute accurately.
These are a bare minimum.He also said we needed a stronger squad to cope with an intense 46 game season.Where is it???
"The Times" assessment of pre-season Boro in today's The Game:
"Stability is the watchword that should set Middlesbrough apart from some more notorious clubs falling out of the big league. Gareth Southgate is just as good a manager as he was when guiding the team to successive mid-table Premier League finishes, or probably better, for the experience he has gained. For all the predictions of a mass exodus, only Stewart Downing has departed [ed: bit out of date there!]. Motivating the malcontents - or getting them off the wage bill sharpish [ed: now that's nearer the mark!] - will be among Southgate's biggest challenges, and planning life after Tuncay, an excellent player bound to find a top-flight exit, here or abroad."
Tipped to finish second to the Blades!
Fizzy pop league impact player: Adam Johnson ("Might just turn out to be a better left-winger than Steward Downing and the England Under-21 star will be given his head now. Johnson has pace, great close control, dribbling skills and more variation in his game, although he needs to improve his crossing and gain a better appreciation of when to release the ball. Freed up in the lower level of the Coca-Cola Championship, Johnson can be a star turn this season"). ;)
Are Boro fans more divided or deluded than others? Or more fatalistic and depressed? Or are websites devoted to other clubs' supporters just as bad?
Still, not long to go now. Good Luck to the lads against Sheffield United but I will be on a two and a half hour ferry journey when the game is played (not that there would be any coverage of it here anyway...).
BoroPhil at 11:15 2 Aug 2009:
That's largely my position also, although in withdrawing by season ticket support and trying, through the medium of this blog and Boro Banter, to highlight that "blind faith" isn't enough, I in a small way, hope to help get the message across to Steve Gibson, as the main architect of everything at Boro, that only actions will do.
I'm personally very skeptical about his words now, because of the last 3-year history, when fans (and I believe some of the younger and probably more naive players) were led to continue to believe in the European dream ambition, when it eventually became clear that financial circumstances had changed significantly behind the scenes, yet no explanation of this was offered by Gibson or anyone else on behalf of the club.
By doing THAT, I feel much goodwill might have been preserved instead of many fans now feeling as though they've actually been short-changed by a guy who was a local hero, but who has shown his true colours as a businessman, first and foremost - and one not too adept at retail psychology, at that!
That said, one has to make allowances for the effect on playing staff and others, if it had been openly declared that belts were being drawn in, at least for a while. You can imagine these days how mercenary footballers already reluctant to make their way to the North-East would react to hearing directly and publicly, that Boro needed to reign in on their spending and have what they already suspected reinforced - that Boro wouldn't be offering them highest rates - even if by most ordinary and honest people's standards the salaries are ludicrously eye-watering!!
My earlier comment about Gibson being an honourable man was specifically meant in connection with the fair manner in which I believe he's treating Southgate because he knows that Southgate was working with his hands tied behind his back in many respects and was largely doing his master's bidding.
For the master then to beat the subordinate for doing his best under master-constrained circumstances would be dishonourable, to say the least, and would be the actions of a completely untrustworthy, ruthless tyrant who would be unworthy of any loyalty himself. And I don't believe that Steve Gibson is quite in that category!
The following is copied straight from the Gazette's report on the Milwall match
''CoyneâÂÂs a steady keeper and the centre-backs will be the envy of most, if not all of BoroâÂÂs opponents. There are question marks at right-back with Tony McMahon looking a far more solid proposition than managerâÂÂs favourite Justin Hoyte.
Adam Johnson is nailed on to start on the left of midfield but his distribution needs
to improve while, on the right, Yeates looks a lively acquisition.
Arca is a real concern in the middle. In pre-season he has looked short of pace, has lost possession far too often and, in his frustration, gives away needless fouls. If fit, Digard and OâÂÂNeil look to be a safe pairing, though Williams should be accommodated somewhere, such has been his impact.
Up front, Jeremie Aliadiere has done little to claim a starting berth while Marvin Emnes may come good alongside a powerful leader of the line.''
This is no slight against the writer (Phil Tallentire) but it is hardly an earth shattering, headline busting, origin of life, Pullitzer Prize, piece of investigative journalism..
The problems were there most of last season and have shown no sign of going away. Yeates and Williams are plusses but if you keep doing what hasnt worked in the past it is unlikely to work in the future.
We need fresh blood sooner rather than later. And I am not being negative because, half full or half empty, the contents of the glass remain the same.
Getting a comment on in here is like the Afonso Alves method of striking. Have a bash, it might work, pobably won't. Any sign of mine from aug 2nd, bout 7ish. Should be between Nelly and Tony Black. Bring back Captcha!
Danny Coyne is the new Andy Dibble. Buy a new keeper you idiots. Someone experienced like a Jens Lehmann-style keeper who has played at the TOP level.
I will stand firm on my view no matter what spin in Southgate's favour should transpire, and that is, he is a poor manager. Because of him we're in the Championship - air and simple. It was not a case of if the moment he was announced as our new boss after the departure of McClaren, but when. It took just three seasons.
Because of him very few players want to come to Teesside and join ranks with his side: witness how many potential signings we missed out on simply because they wished to play elsewhere (Mr. Ginger opting for Wigan instead, for example).
Because of him we are once again in EXACTLY THE SAME PRE-SEASON SITUATION whereby with very few new signings to strengthen our squad we're left relying on existing inexperienced youngsters who are now, ominously and all too predictably, getting injured before the big kick off (where have we heard that one before I wonder??).
Because of him it would appear that come this Friday Boro might possibly throw away the chance to sit TOP OF THE TABLE BY THREE CLEAR POINTS - at least for 24 hours or so. Now THAT is something ANY Boro fan would be aching to see for far too long now, wouldn't you all agree?
Lets face it MFC are on the up. SG does right keeping the club. GS has lots of charisma and the players cant wait to play for him.
The club unluckily went down after 11 seaons in the PL.G S will not and should not be sacked by SG as GS does what he is told and does it well. MFC will be playing Darlington and Hartlepool in the not to distant future but this will be as a result of them being promoted, not us being relegated.
No wonder there is growing optimism amongst fans. They have lots to look forward to?
**AV writes: You are some of my favourite posters.
See Lita's signed. A good buy for this league so long as SG can man-manage the little tearaway! Not Gareth's strongpoint. Managing footballers.
Come on Boro, a couple more decent signing's and a new manager and we are back in business!
Fabulous debate, lads and lasses. Highly entertaining. And also very worrying at times, with a great deal of blood-letting between fellow-supporters.
Has it come to this? We shouldn't be slagging each other off because of what's happened at Boro. Not now. Not ever. I can't believe that people actually want us to lose so Gate is forced out.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Southgate campaign - and I'm definitely in RedcarBell's middle camp - now is the time for us to put our differences behind us and get behind the lads.
I'm not at all convinced given recent performances that we are ready for the rigours of the Championship yet, and new comments from Gate that we are going to be a force just fill me with dread. So we need everyone to get behind Boro on Friday. New season. New challenges. We are all Boro. We will always be Boro. Our Boro. That's our great strength. Come on Boro - get behind the lads!
I was listening to radio5 today. They talked about West Broms inability last season to score goals and keep them out.
The season before in the Championship I recall them scoring left, right and centre. I also saw them beat Peterborough (later promoted) easily in the FA Cup at london Road.
The point I'm making is the huge gulf between the Championship and the Premier. Confidence cannot be underestimated.
I am confident with the team we have at present we will score numerous goals. If we can get a run of results together and build confidence I think we will be far too strong for most teams.
I know the doom and gloom merchants will accuse me of all sorts, but Southgate has my 100% support going into the season. We've had 1 very bad season and deserved to go down.
Why doesn't everyone get behind the team and the club? Vent your anger once the season has started if thing don't go according to plan - but not before a ball has been kicked.
So Leeds get ã8mil for a no name, we get ã10ml for an established England Int, ã400,000 for an experienced European striker (we are ready to pay 3m,for Hulse,a broken down championship player.) Who is running this dog and pony show?GET THEM ALL OUT theyre a bunch of phonies
As soon as Mido was sold Gareth moved for Lita. Well done as the goal scoring record of the player is impressive - also at England U 21 level, too.
I wouldn't mind if we go to the season - until January - with the strike force of Tuncay, Emnes, Lita and Alves. Best in the C'hip! Of course Tuncay could still go - and then we need a quick replacement, again.
I just wish we could - finally - replace Rochemback with a skillfull midfielder. So one more to add before the transfer deadline!
Up the Boro!
BBC report: "Football's European governing body (UEFA) says it is concerned about the financial state of English Premier League clubs.
Uefa general secretary David Taylor warned that some clubs face a crisis if they keep living beyond their means."
I think I have heard SG saying something similar. Thank God, Boro's debt has been redused significantly during the past year or so. I wish the situation of 1986 never happens again. So thank you Mr Gibson!
Up the Boro!
You know what? I get a distinct feeling of deja vu right now - as I have done for the last three or four summers: and that is why do we always leave it so late to strengthen our flimsy squad?
I mean, we have the first game of the season ahead of everybody else in the league this Friday with the Blades (why us and them alone on Friday I wonder? Any explanation for this?) And we have a brilliant opportunity to pull off something we've never done for god only knows how long: that is sit at the TOP of the table, albeit just for 24 hours before the rest of the games results come through....and THAT will only come about if we do the decent thing and WIN the first game against United.
Then again, I still harbour grave doubts about whether or not the Gate can motivate his side to achieve this after a relatively satisfactory pre-season (but then of course we have the perennial injury jinx to take into account as well).
Sitting in Africa its going to be hard to follow whats going on. I am hoping you AV and the locals will keep me informed. Think Lita may come good but not fit enough for Friday, maybe last 20 mins. Let's get the rallying call going COME ON BORO.
John
In summation you are saying Gate is weak in matters relating to football, finances and man management. That is a great relief because I was coming to think of him as a manager with limitations. I can rest safe in the knowledge Boro are in good hands.
Sadly, I will be missing the Sheff Utd match because of my wifes birthday (no, I cant get away with a hospitality package without being admitted as a hospital package). I could blame my wife but her birthday was there long before the date was set for the Fizzy Pop league. Now if we were still in the Premier League.....
"Arca is a real concern in the middle. In pre-season he has looked short of pace, has lost possession far too often and, in his frustration, gives away needless fouls."
Back to his best form, then, eh?
Away for a few days so I am expecting you lot to do the business in my absence.
Three points please and no excuses.
My thought is that, much though Boro could do with him, Gate's 'threat' to play Tuncay on Friday is just that - and intended to prod the player and his welcoming committee at the other end to get through the exit door.
If he's still at Boro by then, my guess is he'll have another bout of 'sulky sick' like he did when he was 'threatened' with Millwall.
Ian - in summation, what I was saying was that - for Gate - Alan Smith is intended to even up the odds in what has been a very uneven two on one bout.
Tuncay playing on friday? Hmmmm......well we shall see but i would be very suprised if he did.I think this is just an attempt to boost ticket sales...
A plea to Southgate on the eve of a new season. Remember the fans go the game to be entertained, not to watch the dross you and your team of coaches have served up, disguised as football, over the past three years.
Also, I've paid my Sky fees and I expect to be entertained on Friday night. Look at the home crowds in the Championship after the first two weeks and see where the Boro sit. Behind the likes of Forrest, Leicester, Derby, Newcastle, West Brom, Bristol and probably others. Reason and one reason alone, Southgate's total lack of management ability. When he's gone Gibbo, they will return.
Please can anyone help. I want a picture for my screen setting of my all time hero Mark Burke but can't find a single picture of him in a Boro shirt on the internet - it's like he's been erased Stalinesque from (Boro) history.
**AV writes: I'm out of the office for a few days but when I get back I'll see what I can do.
Tuncay ? Is that supposed to cheer me up ? It's emabarrassing how highly he's rated at the Boro by fans and 'management'.
Another example of someone who really doesn't know how lucky he is to be getting highly paid to play for a great club with a marvelous crowd and wonderful facilities. A club where he is still liked even though he he scored about 5 goals in 40 games.
He promises a lot but delivers 'neischmans'. Very energetic, never seen a player who tries harder but by no means a good footballer. His touch is amateurish - he puts in the effort to 'get there' but his final pass or shot is inevitably sub-standard. Anyone who has to play alongside him has my sympathy. Mido & King scored as many or possibly more - wouldn't you be mortified by that if you had any pride at all ?
If Stuttgart offer ã9 million throw in Aliadaire and Stockton as well there all Mackems anyway !
3 Good reasons to keep faith with Gareth ?
1. He's only had three years !!
2. We could get in his Alan Carr in his place
3. Martin Oneill would have changed everything !!
If Anthony MacMahon or any of his family of friends read this blog tell him to go to a team where he'll be appreciated. Put in a transfer request son - get the hell out of the Boro. Youll play for England if you get the right manager.
jp: Re. Marke Burke
Have a look here - it's the best I could find: http://tiny.cc/SHC8L .
Looking at the squad and recent pre-season results, the major flaws in the creative midfield and goal scoring areas persist. Maybe with the addition of Lethal Leroy we might have a player with pace and eye for goal at least at this level.
The main concern I have is the delays/confusion of those in the departure lounge going on deep into the last few hours of the deadline. Prospective buyers can leave Tuncay/Huth/Alves/OâÂÂNeil/Wheater/Poatetz/Arca/Mendieta/Wigham in the Boro Bargain Bucket whilst they try other targets.
The longer this goes on the vultures will think they can claim them cheaper, as we need to offload to reduce the wage bill. This state of affairs is not SGâÂÂs or GSâÂÂs fault, but the fault of buffoons at Fifa. If there has to be a window canâÂÂt it shut before the season starts?
With a late fire sale, will there be adequate time to bring in replacements, even with GSâÂÂs list of targets? Probably not.
Going into a season not knowing who will be in the squad come September is a major worry. And it is this scenario that I see derailing any bid for promotion.
Prediction: 10th (this prediction is based on an estimation of player retention/sales, may go up as well as down)
Promo: West Brom + Ipswich (9th placed last year, often means promo next season), Forest, via the play offs.
Parmo: Sheff. Wed. Sometimes looks good, often disappoints giving poor long runs away from home!
Most heard comment form opposition fans on leaving the ground
âÂÂCan see why they got relegated last yearâŠâÂÅ ..Newcastle got beat againâÂÂ
The thought of Tuncay playing is great - if he is committed. We don't want (and I wouldn't really expect) a half-hearted performance from him. It is typical that some people's only response to this is 'ticket ploy from the club'. Honestly, you couldn't make up some people's paranoia.
John P - why are you so obsessed with Smith's role - he's helping out Gareth a couple of days a week on the training ground - it's no big deal, I certainly can't see it as anything to worry about.
I see the sick notes are flying in thick and fast for the start of the new season!Tuncay looked far from impressed to be in the picture for the team for this season on Tyne Tees last night......
Alves on his way to the back of beyond league obviously for a massive loss to boro...Mido back to were he started....do these guys actually think they are going to get spotted in these leagues or have they just bailed out for the money?
Seems to me they should have worked hard at boro if they don't get an offer from a high league club in any country ....and then wait for January when they would surely get snapped up for a decent price.Just shows how desperate they are to get away from Southgate!!
Where is AV?? Have you gone part time or something? The articles are pretty rare these days.
**AV writes: I've been away for a few days in an area where the laptop seems to be struggling. I was going to write something before I left but there was a cracking debate going on so I decided to let it bubble away. If that's OK with you.
Boro fans are used to hard work, and they have a right to expect just that from the team and everybody else concerned with the club. But thereâÂÂs one thing that we should all realise, whatever our opinions are, the most important thing is success for Middlesbrough football club. That is what we all want.
When a sportsman wants success, he has to work hard for it. But he also needs the support of everybody that shares that aim. The fans have to become the 12th man and get behind the team. The players have to earn that support with hard work on the pitch.
Now is the time for a new beginning at Boro. We have to take this relegation as a chance to reform and build a new successful era. This is a season where our young players can flourish and develop there talents. We can use this season as a base on which to build a brighter future. But we can only achieve this if everybody is pulling in the right direction.
So get down to the Riverside tomorrow. Get behind the team. Gareth Southgate is our manager and deserves our support, whatever our opinions of him are. Now is the time. Your club needs you. Believe me, you wonâÂÂt reget it.
I hope I'm wrong however...1-0 after 23 minutes; equaliser in last 15 from a set piece with defenders rooted to the spot while their smallest player ghosts in and heads it home...1-1 final result
'Remember the fans go the game to be entertained'
I thought they went to support their team (unlike you, who'll be watching it on the tv).
What as Southgate,got against Chris Riggott? He's not on team photo. For me,he is our best defensive centre back. How bad was our defending on free kicks last season? Remember 2 seasons ago he came back from Stoke and bailed GS out in the last few games to keep us up. From what some people have said Southgate is upsetting alot of the squad with some of his man management skills.
**AV writes: Riggs is out injured. There's nothing sinister about his exclusion. It is not a picture of the Politburo at a Red Square parade.
Hi AV
Re: Boro4eva comment on Boro FC tab - PR staff at the club.
I have read on the BBC footy website match preview against Sheff U that this ...is the Teessiders' 100th season of league football.
A Centenary Year?
Any events or celebrations going down or are the BBC wrong?!
I've tried to work this one out but I only have a grade 6 CSE in Maths and didn't bother turning up for me History exam!
Why on earth would anyone want a picture of Mark Burke?
His horrendous miss at Sheffield Wednesday in the last match of the 1988-89 season - truly the most catastrophic howler - was the second worst I have ever seen by a Boro player. We lost that match 1-0 and got relegated.
No wonder the airbrushers have been at work!
May I remind us all that we're supposed to be fans, a shortened form of "fanatics".
In a strict sense, this means we are supposed to follow the club with an "uncritical zeal" -- or blind faith if you like.
Now I am not calling for blind faith, but the negativity and pessimism on this blog sometimes gets overwhelming.
Like many, I thought Southgate should have gone sooner, and I was surprised when he survived relegation, but he has. Gibbo, for whatever reason, is persisting with Southgate, and as fans we should too.
I was as disappointed as anyone with relegation, but I hope we perform well and go straight back up. It's not a given -- this is a tough league that boasts many former premiership teams and many wannabees, but any problems that we have are shared by other teams. Check out their boards / blogs for some perspective.
Let's wait and see what the new season brings...who knows, Southgate may finally have learned some lessons.
Up the Boro!!
BoroPhil
Not 'obsessed' with the Alan Smith role and not worried - just interested; particularly because Gate (and indeed anyone else) keeps refusing to say what it is.
He often says what it isn't - and one of the things he specifically says it isn't (despite what you say) is spending any time, let alone a couple of days a week, on the training ground.
AV, hope you get your computer working and see the match today!
By the way, is our away shirt all white like GS (and the rest of support team) was wearing in the team photo? Some grey stripes there, too.
Who will be our captain? Taylor??
1-0 to Boro. A Johnson scores at 33 min.
Up the Boro!
Thanks for the web address John.
To James - what about his devastating run against Newcastle to put a goal on a plate for Slaven? His integral role in the demolition job away to Coventry? His torturing of Aston Villa at home?
Steven Gerrard missed an absolute sitter which cost England a place at the Euros. It can happen to the best.
The last thing I want to do on here is criticise Bruce Rioch but if Burke had been played more he would have lit the world alight with his silky skills. And then to be sold for ã20,000 by Todd was ridiculous.Cooper was offloaded for a smallish fee too which is just more proof of the confusion at the club at that time.
Either that or I have lost my ability to judge objectively through a haze of nostalgia. I'm going misty eyed just typing this.
AV: You may have gone away and left with a cracking debate ongoing, but it appears that the blog needs your authorisation for posts to be published. So the thing stopped in its tracks for days. End of debate!
**AV writes: Given some of the things that have been written of late I can't really switch on auto-publish and then disappear. M'learned friends may be waiting for me on my return. Anyway, home now, problem solved.
BoroPhil
Tuncay? Ticket ploy? Some people's paranoia?
See my posting on Gate's 'threat' to play Tuncay, posted at August 5 2009 at 12.17 pm above.
Now he's got 'tonsilitis'. Ho, hum.
Poor news about Gary O'Neil needing a groin op that will keep him out for a month. The club says that he's needed an op for a while and has been playing through the pain barrier. So, why not get the op done in the closed season, then, and not wait until now?
Could it be that MFC expected him to go back to Pompey or somewhere and were looking to foist the op on someone else? Or maybe that's more paranoia.
Good news that Alves is about to go (I hope that's not tempting fate). I'll bet the fee is undisclosed to save the blushes of whoever sorted the ã12.7m MFC paid and what size of loss they're taking. Stand up Gibbo and The Count!
AV:
So Trinity-Mirror squad depth is a bit like Boro's? Nobody with any experience to step into the breach when the main man's crocked, suspended, has tonsillitis or needs a hernia operation!! OK, m'learned friend, here's something to get your anti-litigious teeth intoâŠâŠâÂÅ
Just as it appears that the Gazette are thinly staffed, it would also appear to be a sign of "The Times"!........ It's so bad that even poor old Rupert's media empire is feeling the pinch too and he's threatening us all with paying for stories his hacks choose to generate, I see?! Talk about a license to print money!!
Example:
[Real stories are a bit thin on the ground today guys, so, how about, "Jordan to join Boro":
A rumoured Boro transfer target, thought to have at one time close to the ex-"glamour" model-cum-celebrity wife-cum successful but otherwise talentless self-publicist who's only attribute other than her inflated ego is an artificial, surgically-enhanced, pneumatic or hydraulic, oversized chest, said, "I'm sick as a parrot, know what I mean? I really fot Boro woz cummin' in fo' me and up comes Jordan applyin' for the job jus' coz they need somebody really big up front! S'not fair I tell ya! Suffink should be done abaat it!"
A statement from a club source suggested that the club might possibly be attracted if the Price was right!
But that's what they said about Afonso Alves, was it not? Superficially impressive statistics but no genuine class?]
And Rupert's big idea is that we'd pay for this online? Well, there's a novel idea Rupert! But isn't that exactly the sort of thing your hacks have been doing for years in your newspapers, anyway?
Well, I suppose you have a point. If people are daft and sad enough to buy it!
(Isn't it about time you were at the Riverside? Time to see how sharp the Blades are!)
**AV writes: Who could step in for me when I was away. It isn't just pressing buttons you know. There is sarcasm, contrariness and thinking too much as well.
Micro-pricing for web-only content is an interesting discussion but one for another time.