Car Wreck Season Over
SO BORO'S slow-motion car crash of a season skidded and spluttered to a half-hearted halt at Upton Park; the Riverside Revolution twocked by bean-counters, downsized from a gas-guzzling flash bright red sports number to a humdrum family hatch-back with little power but better value for money before being left rusting on the drive with a felt-tipped notice in the rear window "for spares or repair". Sad. But inevitable.
It was do-or-die. It was the last chance saloon. It was the chance for our big name players who think they should be plying their trade at a better club to show exactly what they had to offer new employers. It was a day for heroes. And what happened? Pretty much nothing. Boro had nothing. No spark. No energy. No fight. No creativity. No unity. No urgency. No chance. No sense of a fired up team fighting for survival. It felt like a limp end of season dead rubber for a team safely tucked away in mid-season.
I despair. To go down without a fight is unforgivable. This is a soft centred, mentally weak, disorganised, demotivated team that are deservedly being relegated. It is a team with a failed philosophy that needs junking. And a set-up that needs to be ripped apart and rebuilt from scratch around pride, passion and a will to win. That Newcastle have gone down is an empty consolation for a season with so few redeeming features.
More later. In the meantime, over to you...
Older/Newer
« Will Jigsaw Finale Fall Into Place? | Stockton: Just A Town Full Of Mackems? »
127 Comments
Leave a comment
Profile
Anthony Vickers
Latest Football League video
Keep up to date
Follow Untypical Boro on
Ah AV but we have lessons to learn, lots and lots of lessons and of course the man that took us down thinks he nows knows what's needed to get back up again.
GS Yer Jokin Arn't Ya. There was no fight and literally it's been boys against men all season with lots of square pegs trying to be squashed into little round holes. There is only one person responsible for picking and motivating the team and he should be fired now to give the new broom enough time to prepare for next season otherwise I forsee a continued slide from mediocity to obscurity.
However, there's some good news - GS will finally get his Premier League Manager credentials in the summer - that kind of sums up the irony of the wrong man at the wrong time.
SG, it's time to admit a mistake and put some pride back into the club.
Someone once said (paraphrase):
" A stupid person buys shares of stock of a company, and when the value goes down a little instead of going up, he sells it. An intelligent person buys shares of stock of a company, and when it goes down, he holds on to it all the way down to zero, because he knows his analysis of the company and its prospects is correct. "
It appears that Gibson "knows" that his analysis of Southgate's prospects as a manager is "correct" and so Southgate will continue as the manager all the way down to League One and maybe below.
Perhaps "stupid" people will look at both of today's relegations as proof of two points:
- Experienced management is more successful than inexperienced management, no matter what the enterprise.
- There is no correlation between performance as a player and performance as a manager, no matter what the sport.
---
I wish Boro all the best, but I see a continual underperformance of players when they are managed by Southgate. While people blame Alves for his underperformance, we have to ask - "what experience did Southgate have in helping a league golden boot record top scorer adjust to English football?" - and the answer is "none whatsoever".
But we have to also notice that we scored less goals than any other club in English Football - despite also having a player who scored three goals in one match against Manchester United in the Champions League. So, Tuncay clearly was capable of playing against English teams, but he also underperformed.
Compare the number of goals scored by McClaren's "negative football" with the number scored by Southgate's "positive adventurous football".
Furthermore, despite being coached by two excellent centre backs, our defenders constantly allowed crucial goals. They clearly underperformed.
The England left midfielder underformed (2 goals this season - both shortly after the January transfer debacle and clearly motivated by public image concerns).
All of the promising European transfers underperformed, and all of the promising Academy grads underperformed. One player underperforming can be pinned on the player. All player underperforming can only be pinned on the manager.
It has been theorized that Southgate was hampered by player acquisitions and other conditions that were controlled by others. If so, the situation is far worse, because it means that there is no remedy, because sacking the manager would then not fix the problem. It would mean that MFC is inherently dysfunctional, but fortunately, the club and Southgate deny that anything occurs without his approval.
Again, I wish Boro all the best, but I cannot continue to follow the club with Southgate as manager.
Players not motivated ! How do you rectify that Mr Gibson ?
Well, that's it. We werent good enough and really looked shot before we got started. The body language wasnt right from the off. The same old problems were there for all to see.
So what next - the post mortem. Should GS stay and which players should we let go? I will get pilloried for this but I hope GS stays. He's articulate, intelligent and I believe he has a strength and fortitude that will serve us well. He has come back from some real personal setbacks in his career and I for one admire him. He was a great captain and loves the club - contrast his thoughtful comments with those from AS up the road. There is no comparison. Smart people learn quickly and he is smart.
Where have we gone wrong this season? It goes without saying we havent scored enough - but you know - Alves looks like a scorer to me. I always think he's about to score and his positional play seems good.
Personally I think a major reason for going down the gurgler is the midfield. No steel and no creativity in equal measure. It probably was a mistake letting Catts go and Luke Young was a catastrophic loss as we lost the balance of the team. O'Neill is a good player but not what we needed. Dont forget the midfield also helps protect the defence - as we saw when Shawky was taken off against Newcastle (big mistake). Alliadiere is an enigma - if only he could make his last touch count.
I think we have been caught between two footballing philosophies - the Sam Allerdyce way and the Arsene Wenger way. Clearly GS prefers the latter as I think we all do, but the change was too sudden.
Remember how much we disliked the Mclaren way? I disliked Mclaren not so much for the football but for the rampant ambition that meant he was always on the look out for something better. I think the baby went out with the bath water on that one. It was all about him and not about the club - unlike GS - who has tried to play entertaining footy but we got caught with too many changes too soon, a team that was too young and too lightweight with out a mean son of a so and so (bring back Souness) to make things solid at the back and into midfield.
GS is a victim of circumstances and in my view should be given the chance to re-build. After all he was a first rate defender and he knows that that's about.
Personally I would start by making Huth captain assuming he is going to be fit and injuries are behind him. I dont know if this will be enough to keep him with us though. Having been recalled to the German squad he could clearly move on to a first division club somewhere. Having said that - we have been loyal to him and treated him well as far as I can see. He might just have enough tutonic backbone to be up for the fight.
I like Digard (a lot) and if we could get someone with strengh and creativity to support him we would do well. A couple of tireless wingbacks and a big bruiser of a centreforward wouldnt be a bad idea either. Someone like Viduka or Mido but a bit meaner and without the attitude would be just right. Downing may well be here til January so we need to try like hell to hang on to Johnno by promising hom more football. Personally I think we have been too Downing centric (through necessity) stop him and you stop us - its time for him to try new pastures. Persuade Bates, Walker and Taylor that they have a home and that'll be a start.
So who's going? - O'Neill, Mido, Downing, Pogatetz, Arca, Tuncay, Alliadiere. I'd hang on to Alves if we can afford to. I just think he might come good and we'd lose too much on him at the moment. I am told though, on good authority, that he is a young lad with too much money and needs to be mentored very carefully. Can we get a few tips feom Alex Ferguson on how to do this?
BYE BYE PREMIER LEAGUE PIE (with apologies to Don McClean)
One of the worst seasons in living memory.
First and foremost, what abysmal leadership shown by the Chairman and Chief Exec in appointing and supporting a third rookie manager in a row.
Manager and coaching staff have takes us from Eindhoven to the Championship in three seasons, and if nothing is done, Division Two looms at the end of next season. No lessons have been learned, for all SouthgateâÂÂs claims.
Despite the majority of the coaching staff and manager being ex-defenders, we have one of the worst defences in the country. There is no communication between goalkeeper and defence.
Let me try and summarise what has gone wrong with the club.
Our midfield has been weak for over ten years, with nothing being done to rectify this basic flaw. Without a strong midfield, you cannot dominate, and you cannot create.
Last decent striker we had was John Hickton. Everyone played in that position since, hasnâÂÂt been fit to lace HicktonâÂÂs boots. Worst goalscorers in the entire football league.
So many underachievers this season. Why is this? Southgate doesnâÂÂt motivate fans or players. He has no tactical nous, and the players have no respect for him. We need to offload the following players ASAP.
Downing, Alves, Mido, Shawkey, OâÂÂNeill, Arca, Aliadiere, Tuncay, Pogatetz, Huth, Hoyte. Replace them with hungry aggressive and fit ENGLISH players from the lower leagues. IâÂÂve had enough of foreigners who canâÂÂt be arsed to put in a performance and actually earn their money.
Do we have an actual scouting network? If so what have they been doing. Other clubs find better and cheaper players than the ones we seem to sign. GibsonâÂÂs money has been repeatedly wasted on players who have proved conclusively that they are not good enough for the Premiership. Who was responsible for those signings?
At the start of the season, we offloaded experienced players and did not replace them. Subsequently, we had a paper thin squad, and it did not take long before injuries decimated that squad, leading to square pegs in round holes, and no chance of playing a settled side.
Tactics have been noticeable by their absence, and the substitutions often leave supporters bewildered. How many times has Southgate or one of the players bigged up the weekendâÂÂs game, only for the game not to live up to promises?
Just look at the average Boro performance. Headless chickens just about sums them up. Every goalkick by Jones goes straight to the opposition, as no Boro player tries to win those balls. We donâÂÂt seem to have anyone in the team who can actually head a ball.
No communication leads to people getting caught in possession. Shooting is abysmal. Everyone always wants an extra touch, and gets closed down before they can get a pass or shot away. Conversely, we donâÂÂt close anyone down. We give them all the time and space in the world.
We are hopeless at set-pieces, corners and free-kicks. Everyone tries to score wondergoals from freekicks. What happened to playing a simple wall-pass, or chip or square ball? Why not keep it simple?
Crosses have been abysmal. They never go near a Boro player, always over everybody or too close to the goalkeeper.
We need a proper captain. Someone who can lead by example and drive the team forward. BoroâÂÂs gameplay is too slow, too predictable, and players show no heart, no passion, no steel, and little committment.
There is little movement off the ball, no vision, little in the way of passing ability, no one can head a ball, too many clumsy and unnecessary fouls, no one can seemingly tackle without giving a foul away, we give the opposition too much time and space.
Too often the opposition single out certain of our players, and take them out with cynical fouls for which they rarely get punished. I would like to see some payback. If they can do it to us, why canâÂÂt we do it to them?
Boro deserve to be relegated, make no mistake. But there is collective blame to dish out. No one player or individual, no one game or one mistake has caused this. Blind pigheadedness and failure to recognize and deal with failings are the root causes.
The question is, are we going to keep repeating the same mistakes or actually start learning some of those lessons that idiot Southgate keeps going on about?
So in the end it was business as usual - no rousing finale, no one last high energy attempt to give it everything.
People say that a team reflects the manager - Ours is too young and lacks experience with too many players promoted too soon with a complete lack of aggression and and a propensity to make the same errors again and again but forever talking a good game but has an absence of quality where it matters.
Southgate rather irritatingly continues to spout on about another lesson learned - but where's the evidence that any lessons have been learned by anybody at the club? It's been a season of error upon error by everybody - the problem is that it's the same people who will hold the enquiry - No doubt the conclusion will be 'outside forces' were to blame!
The idea that a man that has shown no aptitude for either dealing in the transfer market or even selecting a coherent starting eleven will be placed in charge of building a new team from scratch is laughable - Mr Gibson if you're reading, you know what you must do.
Besides, we will need a manager that will tip the decision of decent players to come to Boro - at the moment Southgate can't even persuade academy graduates to stay.
A good round up and I hope they listen
Well hopefully we will show more character next year but it was not a pleasant match. Hull showed more passion than us so I think really they deserved to stay up
At least my Saturday afternoons will be free now
The saddest episode came in the last 10 mins or so - Tuncay began barking at the bench, then his teammates, notably Adam Johnson. The discord amongst this disparate lot was abundantly evident - poor body language, a sheer lack of desire, an absence of hustle...
The speculation of an off-season purge is rampant - but how can any confidence be invested in the core that is to remain? Footballing wisdom says you need 3 teams to escape relegation worries: a team designed to get out of the Championship; a team designed to avoid relegation at the first go; and a team intended to consolidate your position in the Premier League. GS has proved competent at cobbling together a regressing side - wagering on his improvement endangers a vast supporters community.
Come on Gibbo, surely there are different feasible business models that accommodate a restructuring and resurgence that differs from the one you intend...
I'm taking a hard-earned break from footie, apart from the usual work distraction, and actually playing it - we all should benefit from such a respite.
AV, it was not this last game but the whole season (or rather the last 5 months or so) where we lost the PL status. We out played the Hammers in the first half but, again, the opposition scored. Typical this season!!!
Boro never deserve to go down but you are right. "This is a soft centred, mentally weak, disorganized, demotivated team that are deservedly being relegated."
I do, however, see that the club is still well run - I mean I cannot see a "Southampton" happening. We should be heading for promotion next season. Our academy, Rockcliffe Park and the Riverside are all still there. Boro's economy is reasonable, etc.
Personally, my biggest regret is that Boro's matches will not be shown on the TV here in Finland next season. But I can get over that. Anyway I was watching the Boro at Hartlepool in the third tier all the years ago - but we have made enormous progress ever since.
Yes, hugely disappointed but this is not the end of the world. Boro will be back - sooner or later.
Up the BORO!
I just want to state my admiration for Ricky Sbragia for having the integrity to resign after staying up . Unlike our incumbent who displays incredible arrogance for one who has failed so dismally. His own words were 'this is my team , judge me after this season ' Well all I can say is that if he was in a court of law he would be hanged !!!
Perhaps he should test thesupporters by putting himself, his coaching staff , his captain & some of his signings in the stocks to see if the fans react, or more probably the comment will begin with 'WE WILL LEARN FROM THIS, WE WILL ROLL OUR SLEEVES UP ON THE TRAINING PITCH ?
Personally I would like to see them maintain a semblence of pride & respect for the club & the fans by resigning.
Gareth Southgate might be perceived by the world at large as "a nice guy, gentleman, intelligent, thoughtful and considerate" BUT he's a poor manager, pure and simple.
Next season, after three of rampant mediocrity, that's all we need to hear from the waffling pundits...."Boro are garbage, couldnâÂÂt score a goal for love nor money, BUT that Gareth what a lovely bloke, he'll take them down to League One with dignity!âÂÂ
All the good guy media interviews in the world are not going to get us out of the whirlpool of the Piranha riddled waters of the Championship.
Dear Gareth Southgate;
âÂÂMate, we have had enough of YOU, admit to yourself you are out of your depth AND please leave now before our club slides into obscurity. ItâÂÂs only your job BUT itâÂÂs my life and my love and the love of 30,000 others inside the Riverside and countless others spread around the globe. We are grieving and have lost out pride so do the right thing and resign!âÂÂ
Otherwise I think I may have to repeat this message next May!
If ever there is anyone who should be blamed, it should have been the Chairman - for not having the guts to fire GS when signs of his incompetency begin to manifest half-way through the season.
Sadly, the Chairman did not act on the situation until the very end (even when the long suffering fans have been clamouring for GS sacking). Call me ungrateful if you will, but somebody needs to be responsible for the quagmire that we are in.
I have watched the Boro for over 60 years and I am saddened to say last nights performance was the first time I have walked away before the final whistle.
Though we have some very good individual players this is the worst Boro side I can remember. They are incohesive, lack motivation, fight and have absolutely no Idea how to pass the ball and keep posession and no one knows how to defend.
The coaching staff must be replaced if we are to survive or I ca'nt see them getting out of the championship unless its at the other end. I saw the play of game between Milwall and Scunthorpe and both those sides would have put Boro to shame with there fighting spirit. I fear next year we will have no experience in the side and no strong manager to guide them.
Progress of a sort has been made, after a series of lessons that has gone on for three seasons gate states we now have a 'harsh' lesson.
Another thing from Gates comments was his view that he had been in relegation battles four years out of five as a player. Dont know if that was the moment speaking but it gives an insight into the state of mind at the club.
I have been a Boro supporter for over 60 yearsand last night was the first time I walked out before the final whistle. When West Ham scored that was it for me.
Although we have some very good young players on the books. On the park we dont even resemble a football team,
As a survivor of the season when we got relegated along with Sunderland even though we won at Joker Park back in 1981 the parallels are ominous I remember then along with my brother in law saying if they stop up we'd get a season ticket they didn't we didn't.
If SG keeps Southgate on the same will happen the fans will desert MFC in their droves he needs to sack/persuade GS to go and get a new manager ASAP the championship season starts alot earlier than the premiership and a new manager will have very little time to get his act together.
An interesting aside, looking back through last season and what struck me was the number of bookings in some of the matches by our players SD amongst them something has squeezed the fight out of the team this season it needs to be put back in for the coming campaign.
25 yellow cards this season, 103 last season says it all really
"JUDGE ME AT THE END OF THE SEASON"
we have.....goodbye...oh and thanks.
A disappointing end to a season that had the writing on the wall at Xmas. Faults in every quarter. A powder puff attack, a midfield with no fight and a defence that is terrified of set pieces. Need the inquest go on?
For the record, relegation might mean we win some games and score some goals but not if GS persists with his square pegs philosophy. Some of our lads are only just good enough to play in their favoured positions let alone anywhere else!
So that must mean the end of Downing, O'Neil, Tuncay, Huth, Jones, Alves and Jeremy A. Will Digard stay? A myriad of questions to be asked and answered before we have a strong enough squad to get out of what this year was a very average champiuonship. Interesting punt the three that went down to replace this years three promoted clubs next may? Here's hoping!!
Congratulations must go to Steve Gibson and Keith Lamb. Despite pressure from all quarters to change an inffective, inept and clueless manager they have manfully stuck to their task of downsizing the club from UEFA cup finalists to relegation to the Championship in three years.
Southgate remaining as manager was clearly a major part of that plan. They have also deliberately downsized the hopes and expectations of the fans. Gibson goes on the radio on Tuesday and will no doubt invoke part two of his master plan by saying such things as the past is the past, we are relegated, lets all get behind Southgate and get this club back where it belongs.
Whilst happy in the knowledge he can re-structure the clubs finances with player sales. No doubt he will once again promise sensational signings - Windass might be available.
AV
"I despair. To go down without a fight is unforgivable. This is a soft centred, mentally weak, disorganised, demotivated team that are deservedly being relegated. It is a team with a failed philosophy that needs junking. And a set-up that needs to be ripped apart and rebuilt from scratch around pride, passion and a will to win. That Newcastle have gone down is an empty consolation for a season with so few redeeming features."
Wholeheartedly agree AV - except for the last sentence. Newcastle going down is a MASSIVE consolation!
Although even I was proved wildly optimistic with my 35 point predicition, I think most people saw relegation coming from some way out.
Whereas with the Mags, all this incessant BBC brown-nosing of everything black and white gets on people's nerves - even Lee Dixon on last week's MOTD2 expressed some incredulity that Martin Keown tipped Newcastle for relegation - and makes days like yesterday so deliciously sweet, when the whole rotten monochrome edifice was finally cased up and shipped off to where it actually belongs.
I must admit I laughed and laughed! I'm smiling now writing this! Ha Ha Ha Ha Haway the Lads hahahhahahahaha.....
Ken above said "It has been theorized that Southgate was hampered by player acquisitions and other conditions that were controlled by others".
If SG wanted a pup instead of a Rottweiler so he could manipulate and control him then he got his wish. This may or may not be the case but an experienced manager would not have allowed that to happen. Consequently we have ended up with the most hapless and gutless squad of players I have ever seen in a Boro shirt.
This is much worse than the previous relegations, this one was clearly avoidable. If Gareth was being controlled then shame on SG but even greater shame on Gareth for not standing up for himself.
I wish I had a fiver for every argument I have had with my directors over the years. If you believe you are right and have the courage and confidence you adopt a "back me or sack me" stance. As the best interest for all parties is ultimately in the business they will inevitably back you, if not then walk, simple as that. Your reputation will guarantee you future employment elsewhere.
Consequently I can't accept that SG was making decisions on signings etc. over Gareth's head and if he was then that is as much Gareth's fault as Gibbo's.
The negative historical club record breaking statistics of this season, goals scored (or not as was the case), sequence of away defeats etc. is testimony to something that stinks from within. To have sat by and allowed that to happen when the warning signs were so ominous so early is deeply concerning.
There is very clearly a deep rooted problem at the club which "the inquest" will not reveal (there will be the "Typical Boro" spin put on it) but when players move on and they are free to speak without recriminations then the truth will out!
Gidge Gadgie -
I agree toitally with you! Real sense here. I also hope we keep Alves rather than sell him cheaply. I hope Tuncay is made captain to keep him at Riverside!
Up the Boro!
It took no genius to predict the critical results yesterday, but it was a hard time for the NE nevertheless. As a Sunderland fan with a liking for plucky Pools, I take no pleasure from what happened. It was simply a case of being relieved.
Although Boro will find they are in a tough league next season they and WBA will undoubtedly be somewhere around the play-off positions. Newcastle will be more concerned about relegation issues again.
My main hopes for next season are that Sunderland get a proper manager and finish in the top half and that Pools get promoted so they can play league games versus at least one local team starting in 2010-11.
Boro should keep Southgate.
I re-read the comments by Gidge Gadgie, again. Please do that - this man is totally right.
For example the middfield was our problem as we have Alves, Emnes and Tuncay.
Get over it!
Whats happened is a realistic end to a season thats been below par for our lower-mid-table club.
I just dont get the fans - and they WILL still be fans - who say they wont support the Boro under Southgate. Its either in your blood or it isn't. We've seen worse days than this for Gods sake.
I totally agree with AV about the "failed philosophy that needs junking" but would prefer someone who has more in his heart than an employees responsibility to take us forward while secretly looking for a step up to a bigger club. That may have worked under Mclaren but I just dont like it.
"Football gravity" it may be. Or just that the club has adopted a strategy that aimed to clip the wage bill (see how much it gets clipped this summer!) while not being able to attract players from similar size clubs.
Or.....Southgate could just be rubbish.
A few things that happened yesterday.
The second goal, GS choice of keeper, nobody else or did someone tell him to drop Turnbull?
O'Neil running out of defence with ball and was caught in posession, a Boro player not five foot away could not warn him. Now here's a team fighting for survival.
Not a wimper from a captain or the bench wonder what Fergy would have said to Oneil.
The big row at the end proberbly out of frustration but as the comentater said you win together you lose together... but not this team.
Next we continued to send in aimless crosses no height up front unless defence was up. I know King is a carthorse but surely if thats all you have, use him but no.
The Sun ratings for the game mainly 3 out of ten and a two probably the worst ratings I have seen.
Finaly the GS post interview about having to learn from this.
All the above sums up not just yesterdays game but the whole season. Sorry Gareth you are not to blame for everything that happened this season but you are to blame for all the above and that must be enough for you to step down.
When asked by the Setanta reported to justify why he should be in charge next season Southgate refused to answer. Typical really.
Anyone who saw that interview knew by looking at him that this club has no way in hell of coming back up whilst he is there. Something went badly wrong at this club and I doubt for all the rumours we will ever find out. Mid table next season would be my guess.
Typical as well that the final goal we let in was a goal keeping mistake both Turnbull and Jones are pathetic and playing them this year was unforgivable. Hopefully Turnbull will leave but with Southgate in charge he will pick Jones. Its a pointless exercise
So, Gate thinks that the only section of the Boro fans that think he should go are those who haven't suffered being relegated from the Prem - although he does have the good sense to describe them as 'the majority'.
But speaking as one who has the 'forty years of hurt' before the Golden Era that he has just trashed I agree with the majority and so does my Dad!!
Just what is it about his judgement and decision making over the last three seasons and the one just gone particularly that makes a case for trusting him again for the season to come?
There is cause to question GibboâÂÂs decision making and judgement over the same period but at least he has a twenty year track record before that to fall back on.
Gate - please recover the respect we all have for you as one of our finest players and captains and go now.
Just remember when listening to Gibbo on the radio tomorrow night that three years ago he promised the fans 'a top drawer manager'.
And what did he deliver?? Relegation.
As I've said since about November Southgate has to go. But he is not going to so let's accept it. Why would you resign with 2 years left on your contract when if you get sacked you get a nice big pay off?
He's not stupid, he knows he will never work in football again so is only hanging around for the money. Anyone who thinks otherwise is as clueless as Gibson.
Again the goal keeper was pathetic, everyone knew from the off that those two clowns were not good enough and for all the phone in's early season 'i've been proved wrong there both great' etc have been proven worthless. Remember Andy Dibble letting in about five at QPR in the last promotion campaign well with Jones or Turnbull at the club its going to be worse.
Quick word on Tuncay, For me he is the only person who can leave this season with his head held up - although seeing how much passion he has i doubt he will have his head held up. He has been our only player that cared and it boiled over yesterday. Johnson was appalling at best and to see him having a go at him and the bench didn't suprise me.
For all the talk of Johnny Foreigner and how they never try Tuncay has been an inspiration. If we had 11 players out there with his attitude it could of changed. But sadly the other 10 didn't care. Sorry to see you go mate.
So to next season, no point going on about any of this loyalty to the club nonsense i'd expect/hope to see the following move on: Tuncay, Downing, Huth, O'Neil, Shawky, Arca (worse signing by a mile), Aliadiere (a close second to Arca's crown), Bates (useless), Pog, Taylor, Mido (!) and Alves.
I'd like Alves to stay but looks unlikely. My main worry is that other clubs simply wont want to take the likes of Ali and Arca and we will be stuck with them. We have a few young players who have done well in the championship mind
G: ???
RB: Hoyte/McMahon (sub)
LB: new LB/Grounds (sub)
CB: Wheater/Williams (sub)
CB: Riggott/new cb (sub)
RM: ???
LM: Johnson/???
CM: Digard (walker sub)
CM: ??? attack minded
S: Alves/???
S: ???/???
Kevin Doyle and Ross McCormack both scored bag loads last season and are both at clubs going nowhere with not much money. Go out and get them for a start
The whole club needs a change, from the chairman down; too much money too easily for all involved, weak leadership on and off the field, the chairman distracted by off field activities, one lorry load of bull shine after another.
They are now between the rock and the hard place, with a significant number of players not really being bothered about whether they stay or go, and that includes the the 'academy graduates' (few of whom are that good anyway).
Hopeless management has left the coffers bare, which has been too obvious for too long. If this were a business, you would clear all the management out (not the players) and start afresh.
There was a good enough nucleus to have battled for survival, in spite of the suicidal sale of players, all of whom have survived well in the premiership, but the management fell well short, and it seems the boss is already passing the blame - it was his set up, after all.
That's it nowadays, when the money goes, so does everyone else.
And this whilst acknowledging that Boro weren't that bad, that one flukey result the other way, one or two bad injuries too many, they could have been sitting comfortably yesterday.
The only conclusion is that they are down due to rank bad management, from top to bottom. I suspect Coops might be making way, and that's me finished until there are some signs of sense in the club again. I think he probably disagreed with the kamikaze, unprofessional approach as GS experiments with his 'beliefs'. He at least can afford it, but he'll have a chance, possibly, to prove it, and gain some needed experience, and confidence in the second division.
I think Gareth Southgate should be given some sort of trial period as Boro manager next season - he clearly wants Boro to play good football and hopefully that'll be an awful lot easier in the Championship.
But he really, really needs to work on his ability to bring together a team that has some heart and actually wants to win.
The thing is, yesterday the Hull result sort of made it inevitable we would go down, but West Ham were there to be beaten! The goals they scored were handed to them on a plate by defenders unwilling to challenge and the goal we scored showed as soon as we TRIED to put some passes together and advance towards goal, it was very easy to get around their weak defence and score.
But we didn't try - there didn't even seem to be a desire to end the season with any dignity, nevermind attempt an unlikely escape from relegation. It was a real shame and Gareth Southgate needs to realise it is something to do with him why Boro played the final 3, 4 games of the season with an attitude that suggested that it's okay to be relegated - and he needs to work on it fast or it's going to be a very depressing 2009-10 season.
Gidge Gadgie..
Totally agree mate.
I feel like I have a personal vendetta against you, but:
"the Riverside Revolution twocked by bean-counters, downsized from a gas-guzzling flash bright red sports number to a humdrum family hatch-back with little power but better value for money"
That is utter nonesense, or leaves out so much else that it makes it so. Every team above us have had similar restrictions. I didn't think West Ham appeared to have a particularly better squad over the season, yet they were head and shoulders above us. We have been relegated and left at least two (Hull and Stoke) premiership teams ahead us, so where does that the down-sized theory.
The whole theory falls down on our manager who cannot do his job. The teams above us had decent, experienced managers. We had someone who was obviously out of his depth within a few months. The whole concept of a new financial model is made a nonsense of by the buying of Alves, which obviously foohardy, if he was worth that much, he wouldn't have come to Boro!
I am glad we didn't boo him yesterday, whether it is because we are decent or a load of sheep I don't know. I later noticed he decided that he had been fighting relegation during his years as a player, now that is a re-writing of history if ever I heard of it. Yes we have the usual post Xmas blues, but never really threatened to go down. Basically he is denying there was ever a Golden Age, where does that leave your theory!?
I really think you and the Gazette should either now say whether you think Southgate is the man for the job and if you think he is, justify it or accept he should go, but are you too scared of the Boro press office?
Gidge Gadgie,
Have you actually took note of any of the mistakes GS snd SG have made this season as a club?? To quote "smart people learn quickly, and he is smart". I'm sorry but this is a laughable comment.
GS has repeatedly not learnt lessons over his tenure so far. The above comments by many fans are littered with comments such as "square pegs round holes", "bad transfer policy" which would indicate to me that he has not learnt anything.
I truly believe with any other manager in the top two divisions (except shearer) in English football would have kept us up. All the relegation candidates lost on the final day. And the week before Villa were there to beaten, as I believe West Ham were. But Boro were so unbelievably not bothered it beggared belief.
My concern now is that we are in a highly competitive league with a manager with even less experience than he had in the premier league and we are going to be fried.
GS please just leave, I cant take it anymore...
So the painful season has ended. Know what? You've seen nothing yet! Gareth asks to be judged. I'm afraid the more the team has become "team Gareth" the worse it has got. So the judgement is you just aint good enough.
The faults, frailties,weaknesses of the team and squad have been well and truely aired and have been easy to exploit by the opposition.Gareth has sadly not developed into a manager worthy of such a title. It's a sad indictment that the qualities he has are being a nice bloke, a former playing hero and that he cares. None of those qualities are helpful in being a good manager.
What on earth possess Steve Gibson to continue this painful non working experiment is beyond me - and no doubt thousands of others. I have no faith in him being able to wheel and deal to the benefit of the club - he certainly does not appear to have any idea what is needed to buy players to mould into a team.
Under Gareth we will be relegation fodder next year. Dont believe me? Well try 2 points out of a possible 18 when we were supposedly fighting for our Prem place - it says it all.
Dulce et decorum est - roughly translated from latin means Not the least but the greatest we seek. Unfortunately in Boro's case it seems to be the opposite.
The bookies have us to go straight back up at 2/1. I think a lot of work has to go in pre-season and a fair amount of new faces to even justify anything like those kind of odds. I fear that after three months those odds might just go out to 20/1.
Tough times ahead.....
The biggest disgrace of this whole sorry campaign has been the complete lack of fight. Having witnessed five previous relegations I can't remember such an unspirited attempt to avoid the drop.
The blame for that ultimately lies with the manager. Yes players can be blamed but it is the manager who has to get the most out of his squad by whatever means neccessary. In this Southgate has failed as the squad had the quality to survive but failed to perform week in and week out.
If it had just been the case that the team wasn't good enough, had fought as best they could but still been relegated then you could understand Gibson's continuing support for the manager.
Leaving Southgate in charge for the start of next season and seeing how we go, will not galvanise the fans and club. We need to start the next season running with a new impetus that has the fans believing rather than fearing.
I also agree with Gidge Gadgie... someone who is talking sense here. we are all hurt and gutted we have gone down, but in a crazy sort of way Im sort of looking forward to how next season turns out.
Southgate did fine for his first two and a half years before everything came crashing down and I'm willing to give him one more chance, Although I will say something might need to be done if we start running into league troubles again (lets hope thats not the case) and I also think we should keep Alves, I think he will do well in the championship, might just be what he needs. An interesting summer awaits us
I often wonder what may have happened if Jamie Carragher's flukey deflection hadn't gone in at Anfield. We have Liverpool on toast but the inevitable Anfield rally did us in.
This season we needed a few things:
a) a better goalkeeper. Jones is OK as a player but ours is a back four that needs a leader in goals.
b) we needed goals, clearly. I hope Alves stays as a season beating up on worse defences and goalies might get his confidence up.
c) most importantly I feel that our central midfield just lacked anything of substance. the wonky defence was left too exposed and our patchy strikers were dealt up a shocking supply.
Once we sell Tuncay, Downing (who should've been sold in January), and the other inevitable departures mentioned in these comments we should invest in seasoned central midfield campaigners who are experienced in English football (but not necc English), who can harden up our midfield, which should aid the strikers and shield the defenders.
That's what I reckon anyway. I'd like to see Southgate stay on, but let's get a couple more assistants to help out.
Also, Mark Viduka is out of contract... any takers?
Relegation was inevitable as soon as Gareth Southgate was appointed.
But ,in the words of Gareth, it is a hard lesson. And from week to week, what have we learned.... yes you got it, we learned more lessons. And relegation will offer more opportunities to have more lessons in which to learn, learn what exactly Gareth?
The only lesson that Gareth realistically has learnt, is that there is more learning to do, and more lessons to be taught. What a total crock. The sooner the lame management is dispensed, the better for the club.
Good bye Gareth. Thank you for the lessons we have learned.
I think that Steve Gibson should stop treating the Boro as his "fiefdom" and remember that the Boro belongs to the town and its supporters.
Before going on the radio to announce his plans; he should listen to what the supporters want and take the advice from seasoned professionals who have been saying that GS is not good enough.
I remember back in the Autumn when the teams in the Premiership were changing their managers for more experienced managers and their supporters could not believe how GS was keeping his job - the writing was on the wall way back then.
Swallow your pride SG appoint a new more experienced manager, with GS his assistant (if he wants it) - we need to hit the floor running in August.
A Boro supporter of 60+ years.
A Tottenham Hotspur Fan .
For Gawd sake Mr Gibson - stop living off your " most loyal Chairman " title - that you seem so fond of . Although it continues to titillate and pamper your ego - the reality of it is simple .
OUT SOUTHGATE - That way you give yourself and all those poor Boro fans a fighting chance next season .
The biggest indictment of yesterday was the admittance that they went to West Ham to 'play it tight and try and nick a goal'.
They needed to win by a bagful, and hope Hull got a similar drubbing to make up the goal difference. THAT is Southgate's idea of attack for the most critical game of the season?
He doesn't have the midfield or strikers to attack, and that's because he hasn't bought them. That's why we are the league's lowest scorers. All down to him, the players he's bought, and the the tactics he has employed.
He has learned no lessons, and will no doubt be using the same sorry excuses when he relegates us to Div 2.
Just heard a quote from Steve Claridge that could quite easily apply to Boro.
"A good manager can't make a bad player into a good one, but a bad manager can make a good player into a bad one."
Maybe if Burnley lose today then Boro should waste no time in going for Owen Coyle - he's generally regarded as a good motivator who can build a team on tight resources.
Dear Chris in Beverley,
A more accurate translation is ''It is sweet and honorable.''
Ta,
Robin Mitton
CEO SUPERTEAM SPORTS (EU & ARAB NATIONS)
Although I for one have called for Gareths head, only based on the signings and inept coaching, one must wonder if someone in the background really does have too much to say as to who we sign and who we employ as coaches.
And the idea that these academy players are good enough (on a regular basis not a few games) is a joke. Does Bates think he is that good? Or Taylor? Where are those players who won the youth cup?
Maybe the penny has finally dropped with Gareth. He will be boss next season if he walks into the Chairmans office and demands its my way or the highway. If he is sacked then you all know who really is the problem. McClaren had some success because he was his own man.
Well Brian B, I'm not sure which country you're in where GS could be hanged for any crime? I'll take that to mean that, like every other boro fan, you're gutted.
Season verdict: most of the players, like the manager, could well be of a decent Premiership standard in a few years time. But for now they're not good enough. Two or three seasoned professionals had to carry a squad-full of youngsters. Maybe they can now all learn their trade properly in a lower league, without the benefit of the seasoned professionals.
On GS: I believe we should stick with him because:
1. He is loyal
2. He has a good relationship with SG
3. He is willing to work within the restrictions that SG has placed, and has had to work under restrictions that neither of his two predecessors had to
4. The majority of his signings are 'for the future', and I want to see them come to fruition
5. He *tries* to play football properly (I know he doesn't regularly succeed)
6. He fits with the new principles of the club under SG - long termism; sustainability; self-sufficiency; local integration; principled football
I know I haven't mentioned the negatives, but then those calling for Southgate to leave don't generally bother giving a balanced view either.
Tuncay. A man with fight and heart.... kind of like that Boro team that beat steaua at the Riverside.... why has it gone wrong? Because the club at the moment is a shambles! Poor executives and an even poorer manager. Oh where was Mendieta when we needed him? Oh yeah, he was booted out by our plums at the helm.
To say i am disillusioned is an understatement... but hope!!! Remember Barca last year and look at them now... kings of the world.
I would have agree with someone else who name I cannot remember at this point, nor can I be bothered to scroll through and find out again, but the gazette has a duty to stop being a mouth piece of the club.
Today's headlines are still behind the manager and putting a positive spin on going down "Fight or GO!" sort of stuff is just irritating, especially now.
**AV writes: People read what they want into any story we put in the Gazette and at times like now when emotions are high they take exception to anything we write that doesn't agree completely with their position. Unless we call for the public decapitation of Southgate, Gibson and Lamb we are "in the club's pocket".
If he wants the club to progress or at least avoid total collapse Gibson has no alternative but to sack possibly our most incapable manager ever. It will probably be good for Gareth too. He has simply not earned a season's duress like Robson and Lawrence did.
According to the BBC David Wheater is still with us next season: "I'm happy to stay. I've supported Boro all my life. They are a team I want to play for and try to get them back up."
Great for Boro's future! Up the Boro!
Gibbo has had to cut the squad down coz of finances and therefore needs a manager to galvanise whats left of the squad even more.
It is sad that we will lose Tuncay as he has been different class.
Southgate will have to change most of the players if he stays as the ones here at the mo dont give a monkeys about playing for him. The other option is get rid of gate and get someone who the lads will play for as we still have some talent.
So SG has deemed it timely to talk on his tame Radio station tomorrow night. Shame he was awol when we needed him to come out and offer strong leadership six months ago. Talk's cheap, and no doubt we will hear more spin, smoke and mirrors and how Gareth is good for the future of the club.
Don't want to hear it, quite frankly. Totally not interested, too little too late. Action speaks louder than words and the time for action was a long time ago. Another speculator with the financial clout to help underpin this mess is required and although rumoured I doubt that is what SG is going to divulge to us.
Lets face it tonight Ali will be asking him a series of safe questions in the big interview. Here's a sample!
Q) What plans are being made for our glorious coming promotion season?
Q) We understand the club's debt is now under control, what were the measures taken that were so successful in retrieving this potentially catastrophic situation and save the club for the Town for the second time?
Q) Will we be retaining the white band on the kit next season?
Q) How are the community projects going and will the Boro continue to support worthy local causes?
Not
Q) Why did you sit back and do nothing when it was apparent in the Autumn that Gareth had loss the dressing room, the fans and the plot?
Q) What did you think about Zonal Marking, Square Peggism, all the hype about fast attractive football conflicting with the five centre Backs at home to Blackburn.
Q) Why did we spend ã3M on Emnes when we were apparently struggling to make ends meet and the luxury of "one for the future" was not something we could afford especially after allowing Catts, Young, Schwarz and the Boat to go.
Q) Who sanctioned the signing of Mido and why on Earth was it considered good business considering his well documented "previous" yet we sold Luke Young for a similar fee because it was supposed good business?
Q) How much longer are you going to remain inactive whilst Gareth masterminds the decline of the club? For instance will it be League One or Two before he has learned all his lessons?
Ali Brownlee asking tough questions is not an event that is going to happen tomorrow night. It will be one huge non event unless of course SG decides that finally now is the time for straight talking without the Mickey Mouse badge type hype we have come to sadly expect over recent years.
Could it really be possible that he has some earth shattering virginal news to be despatched to us tomorrow night?
Very diplomatically put AV and a piece written from the heart but also designed to generate responses, which you will get.
Should Gareth go? I do
Is Gibbo being naive? I wonder!
But what do you think AV, cards on the table time?
**AV writes: Gibson has always been committed to Southgate because he buys into the vision of creating a new club on a sustainable model. Football is a short-term results driven business riddled with ego-merchants with one eye on the next job and very few managers would agree to a long term perspective, especially one that limits their finances and so prospects of funding a quick CV boosting win. I think Gibson still believes Southgate is "a good fit" with the philosophy of the club and that in the long term that they will reap the rewards.
Further, because the key strategic decisions and the shaping of the finances have been collectively agreed by the top table I think Gibson feels that Southgate should not carry the can individually for them. The best way for managers to get sacked is to spend money badly but Southgate has never been given a 'warchest' to spend. Each transfer is decided on the basis of a costed business case, like a business rather than the idiosyncratic world of football where clubs let under pressure bosses spend ã20m on players - then sack them..
I think those factors more than anything means that Southgate is not under the kind of pressure internally that he is externally.
Gibson will not be scared into kneejerk action by the crowd. far from it. If he was then he would have got rid of McClaren several times over years before he delivered Cardiff and European glory. So long as Gibson genuinely believes Southgate can deliver too he will stick by him.
But he is not naive. He knows that the club can't afford a major downturn in crowds and morale and that the window of opportunity to win fans back is a very short one while the budget projections and political stability of the club demand an immediate challenge for promotion next season. Relegated clubs must come back first time or the money runs out and everything needs to be ripped up so if Southgate doesn't deliver quickly then the pressure will mount with every game.
I think Gibson will back Southgate with cash in the summer. Maybe not Premier League cash but certainly enough to be among the biggest players in this league but he will demand results. I think unless Boro are in the top three or four by October there will be real pressure on Southgate and it will increase with every defeat. Even with draws. Imagine only taking a point at home to Scunthorpe.
I don't doubt that Gibson will sack him if he thought it was absolutely in the best interests of the club. I think Southgate will get 10 to 12 games next season before the question is even raised - but that once it is then he is on borrowed time.
"Dulce et decorum est - roughly translated from latin means Not the least but the greatest we seek".
No it doesn't, not even roughly.
RETURN TO INNOCENCE
"Don't give up and use the chance To return to innocence " Enigma. 1994
When Juninho sank to the turf at Elland Road in 1997, it wasn't just the shame of relegation that enabled all of Teesside to share his tears. It was the sense of injustice that we also cried for, the infamous 3 point saga.
I wrote many words regarding that painful episode in our history, but ultimately, the club made a grave error in failing to turn up for that game against Blackburn. Unavoidable? Maybe. It was an error I thought we wouldn't make again, something we could learn from, as Gareth himself might say in these modern times. However, here we are in 2009, sharing our pain once more. But this time, I feel we have suffered an avoidable relegation.
Back then, in 1997/98, the wave of indignation, coupled with the recruitment of the magic man, Paul Merson, ensured that our return would be a triumphant one, a time when we could stick two fingers up at the FA and announce our return. This time, it appears we may have too much to do to make such a swift return.
Incredibly, just three short years ago we had just witnessed an amazing sight, a Boro team taking the field in Eindhoven for a European final. That we ultimately failed pretty miserably is almost airbrushed away much the same as the 1996/97 season is seen by some as the Boro equivalent of pure football.
Yet niggling away that night in the back of my mind was the chillingly and eerie feeling that we could follow Ipswich as a role model. Beaten by Liverpool 5-0 in May 2002, they had found themselves relegated, and a year later, were placed into temporary administration when the fallout from that fall from grace hit home.
Their real association with today's Boro team though, is that just months before their fall from the top flight, they were playing against Inter Milan (and indeed beat them) in the UEFA Cup. From Eindhoven to Ipswich in just 3 short years.
An avoidable relegation? I believe so. A lot has been written - most of it very good prose - in AV's blog this season, and most of it from real hardened Boro fans, with Boro blood running through their veins. We don't need to go over all the mistakes here. I say we because this club belongs to all of us on this industrial landscape we call home.
But from the moment Steve Gibson chose to employ a roookie manager (again) in Gareth, it all began to uncoil horribly. No experience in the backroom or in the manager, and a steady horrible erosion of experience on the pitch.
Whether or not we blame Gareth, or the business model that Steve Gibson has chosen to follow (and maybe, with one eye on 1986, the right one?), or indeed, ourselves, when most of the voices I heard couldn't wait to get rid of McClaren.
We contributed to the vocal debate over Yakubu (sell him!) What a price we got for him (and what a price we paid?). And most were glad to see some other names go, (Cattermole, Schwarzer) though in defence, most also expected that the experience we were shedding by the boatload would be replaced by equally experienced pro's.
We trusted our club to replace them. And we waited, and watched in horror, as first the powers that be decided we didn't actually need a replacement goalkeeper, and Rocky, Cattermole et al were simply not replaced, except by young academy stars, that try though they might, would never have the steely resolve or acumen to succeed, nor an experienced manager and coaching staff to help them. Avoidable relegation? Yes, yes, and yes again.
However, we now have to accept that it has happened. I believe that Boro's fans have taken it so well, it is almost saintly. A very English relegation, as one newspaper stated.
But is it time to for Boro fans to get angry and retaliate? What will we gain? When Steve Gibson surely announces tomorrow that Southgate is staying, it will be to end the speculation that may well rage for months about whether Southgate should remain at the helm, and to allow the fans at least some time to get used to the fact that Steve Gibson, like Maggie in the early '80's, is not for turning.
He has a plan, he will stick to it, and we must entrust our beloved Boro with him once more. He may well be right, or then again, he may be horribly wrong. Only time will tell. But we have a duty to support Steve Gibson, and once more - though many of us believe firmly that Southgate should end his tenure at our club - back Gibson's decision that we will make a swift return to the top flight.
To not back his judgement, will simply ensure that our dissenting voices will make next season one of conflict, turmoil and ultimately, a disastrous one for our team and area.
I urge us all to give Gibson the benefit of the doubt and support the team and the management. We are back were we started. We need passionate support to allow our youthful team to grow in confidence, hopefully around the injection of experience that our squad requires.
Use this next week or two to purge your anger. Then we need a fresh start, a return to innocence. We can do it, but only as a united Teesside. I'm ready to start again. Are you?
I've actually heard from someone I know who lives in the area (im from South Africa) that the players really dislike Crosby.. maybe this has had something to do with the poor morale and fighting spirit.
**AV writes: It is impossible to dislike Malcolm Crosby. He is officially the 3rd nicest man in Europe.
Yep, a weak minded team with no fight, lots of work to be done over the Summer.
What Gibbo has done for the Boro is amazing. But because of this know one has the bottle to ask any hard hitting questions to him. Eric Paylor won't, AV won't, and I guarantee Alistaire Brownlee won't tomorrow either. We will be none the wiser tomorrow as to whats going on I bet you all.
The manager said today âÂÂThatâÂÂs why I needed to see a lot of players today. As soon as I know what the players want, then I will know what I have to do".
That comment made me think of one of Middlesbrough's most famous footballing sons. Can anyone believe that something similar to that would ever have been uttered by a certain Brian Howard Clough ? I'm pretty sure he would have sat down with his underachieving squad, & told each of them exactly what he thought of their efforts. He would not have asked them whether they would like to leave, simply informed those he wanted to discard that they should start packing their bags. Then informed the rest of them that they WILL be staying, whether they like it or not !
That's what I'm hoping for next season, a manager who actually "has a set". Too often this season, we have had to put up with hearing defeatist statements coming from the manager's press briefings.
The fans do not want to hear about "the effort put into todays match by the players". They want to hear that the whole team is embarrassed, having lost to an obviously inferior Stoke/West Brom squad. They do not want to hear that "penalty shout's even themselves out over the season". They want to hear, that even Stevie Wonder would have given that particular decision, & any right minded neutral would have to question the integrity of the official.
Although I was delighted for the fans of Burnley today, after they won promotion to the PL. I was also left to lament the passing of the chance for the club to recruit one of the most promising manager's in the country, in Owen Coyle. Had they missed out today, we may have had a chance to recruit Coyle for next season. As it is, "hey Owen, how do you fancy giving up a season in the big league, for another year in the Championship with the Boro"...........
No, thought not
Kev Bouttel - well reasoned position but no I'm not (prepared to 'start again' if that means continuing on the same disastrous path under the same flawed leadership)
To put this in perspective/context I suggest everybody has a read of http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2009/05/why_burnleys_triumph_gives_us.html#088973
This illustrates the impact a good coach has on a team: "I knew we would win...you have to be in the dressing room to believe how much togetherness we have" (Robbie Blake). Here you have a coach who "sends his teams out without fear and convinced they can win", who has led his team not just to promotion but also to the semi-finals of the Carling Cup defeating four PL clubs on the way including Arsenal and Chelsea
He did this on average gates of 13,000, with the ã2.7m spent more than recovered by player sales, and with a young team buoyed by a few experienced heads. If anything undermines the whole foundation of GS defence it is Owen Coyle and Burnley
Do I believe in Steve Gibson? Yes. I value everything he has achieved for the club and I will never forget that. Do I believe that SG is infalliable, that he never makes a mistake? No. Absolutely not - everyone makes mistakes, and when I am convinced he has made a monumental error as with his decisions to appoint and stay with GS then I have a responsibility to stand up and say so
I have never criticised SG over anything else of substance, although I've felt that the 'Teesside' focus is too absolute, it doesn't make the most of the 'global' opportunities available to the club, and it restricts the expertise we employ. Until the appointment of GS I had always accepted that 'he knew better'
If he persists with GS then what are we to do? I like and respect Gareth Southgate but I don't see how him insisting he will stay is consistent with taking responsibility? At any other club, in any other job, taking responsibility means resigning. Stepping down, recognising that there's a consequence for failure
AV - I can hear you sharpening your typing finger, but the example of Owen Coyle and Burnley evidences the failure of GS. Resources? Infrastructure? Player sales and recruitment? Team motivation and tactics? Results? Who was working under the tougher conditions Coyle or Southgate? Who achieved what?
As others have said, this relegation was avoidable. It should never have happened. There are smaller, weaker teams than us still in the PL. There are teams there who will never spend on players what we have spent, who will never attract the gates that we do or have an Academy as productive as ours... Think about it
One other point I really want to make - Steve McClaren was not 'inexperienced'. He had served his apprenticeship under a very experienced manager at Derby County and then under Sir Alex Ferguson at Manchester United. He had gained insight, knowledge and experience as a coach and as a number two and he was ready to step up and take responsibility as Manager of a club the size and stage of development that we were at that time
When GS took over he had no experience whatsoever as a coach. He had no qualifications. He was still a player... The club had risen to a certain level - we were an established force in the PL, we'd won a Cup and got to a European Final - as SG said at the time we were ready to consolidate as a top-half team with expectations of occasional Cup glory and regular European qualification. And then it all went horribly wrong with the appointment of a manager who was so ill equiped
A young team has to have experienced heads to lead, guide and develop. Basic. A coach needs to learn his trade first - like anyone else in any other industry - before he takes full responsibility. Simple. When it's evident a mistake has been made and a catastrophe is unfolding you take corrective measures while there is still time. Obvious (isn't it??)
There is an enormous feeling of frustration, of powerlessness, of a sense that we are cruising towards (an even bigger) disaster but that the captain (SG) just can't see it. I don't see that this hopelessness and division among the fans (and the players) can be removed without the resignation of GS, and ideally without SG also admitting he got it wrong this time
When SG hits the airwaves tonight I just hope and pray that he doesn't try and defend the indefensible, or argue that black is white, or advocate sweeping changes that leave GS to oversee the rebuilding of the rubble to which our great club has been reduced
AV:
There is a Gazette article about Southgate's comments about the squad, followed by a dozen reader comments, and every reader comment, in a different way, called for Southgate to be sacked.
Everything you said about Gibson's attitude towards Southgate - is true, except for the fact that he is not a good manager. Souness was a great player and a terrible manager. Shearer was a great player and a terrible manager. And both of those people have far more "gravitas" than Southgate, and they still failed miserably.
Your list of Gibson's requirements for a manager cover everything except managing the team of players. It is like a car that is "perfect" because it doesn't use any petrol and never breaks down - because it does not have an engine.
Many fans were skeptical about Southgate, but were willing to be convinced. After relegation, they are less convinced than ever. I cannot imagine anyone buying a ticket for any 2009-2010 match, who has not already bought it before May.
As mentioned above, wait until the first loss against a Championship team like Scunthorpe. Scunthorpe have a team who plays well together, MFC have a team who play poorly.
Local pundits here predict that neither Newcastle nor Boro will be promoted, pointing to the previous example of Leeds - semifinals of the Champions League to League One.
Maybe I need to send this as a telegram to Gibson: "Many fans were skeptical about Southgate, but were willing to be convinced. After relegation, they are less convinced than ever."
PS (Please add this to my just submitted post.)
When is a relegation 12-pointer worth nothing at all? It is interesting to note, that mathematically, had Boro won the match against Newcastle by one goal, (instead of losing the match), both Boro and Newcastle would have been relegated anyway. The match turned out to make no mathematical difference to the relagation battle.
One might insist that it made a psychological difference, yet if that were true, then Newcastle would have been able to build on the great derby victory in their subsequent matches - and they did not.
AV
Your reply to Uxter at 6.23 yesterday slightly dodges the question of what 'should' be done in favour of what 'will' be done. But let that pass.
I think it's not just Ali on Radio Tees that will give Gibbo an easier passage than he should have - the Gazette will do the same - and for the same reasons.
But, though I don't agree that it is what 'should' be done, I agree with your assessment of what 'will' be done.
It seems that Gate does too - various reports suggests that he has been telling his mates that he has until Xmas to make sure that Boro are challenging for promotion or he's out.
So, the same regime that has trashed our Prem status is to be given the opportunity to do the same in the Championship. Smart move. (You'll have to imagine the irony)
If that sort of strategy worked with Gate then why didn't Gibbo try the same move in January this year when it began to become obvious the way things were going. He might then have been able to get someone in in time to keep us in the Prem.
I also read that Gibbo is still intent on his inquest. If the stated strategy is continued retrenchment (debt reduction predominates over sporting glory) and Gate is going to stay in place, what's the point of any inquest?
Lastly, Mr. Crosby (who?) may well be the third nicest man in Europe but is he any good at what he does? It seems to me that as an 'eminence grise' he is all 'grise' and no 'eminence'.
Interesting to hear Mr Gigson's interview soon.
But surely he should not dicide if we play Zonal Marking or not? If the statistics say it's a better system why cannot we try it as GS did? As we saw later in the season our players were none the better with man-to-man marking system. The palyers were not good or experienced enough.
Square Peggism? I think this is more a question of the small squad we had this season. We had more than our share of injuries! In the last match we were without King and Alves etc.
The question I'd like to ask is why did we not sign a replacement for Rochenback or - more importantly - for experienced Boateng?
Still -up the Boro!
What more really is there to say?
Except that I am now kicking myself that I didn't actually profit / capitalise on Boro's abject misery this season by putting into action something I should have done back in January - and that was when I was going to place a substantial bet with the bookies based on my confident prediction that Boro were going to lose all of their remaining away games on the trot without drawing or winning a single one.
And I was going to put ã200 on this bet - which would have landed me a nice packet come last Sunday - money that I would most certainly have NOT bothered lavishing on another season ticket probably.....
So why did I not do it (place that bet, that is)? Two possible answers:
1) I bottled it and was just too much of a coward - bearing in mind what happened last year at a similar juncture in time when I was ready to place a bet on Boro never scoring more than two goals in a game for the rest of the season (yes, everything went according to plan until that last home game against Man City, of course, so imagine the huge sigh of relief that I breathed when I realised that I stood to lose my ã200 right at the last post if I had gone ahead and placed that bet back in January!!!) - typical bloody Boro, eh??
2) I, like the players and management themselves, had no guts or conviction to put my words into action: and subsequently, in an almost tragi-comical mirror-image of the club's fortunes this season, scored myself an almighty own goal that I may well come to regret!!!
Let's accept it, we went down because we were crap. Let's not beat about the bush too much now, shall we? Everything that has been said, has been said. All of the cross- examining, pontificating, speculating, dissecting, and the rest of all that bobbins.... We achieved the seemingly improbable of breaking almost every unwanted club record by the week with our ineptitude and abject uselessness. And now we simply have to deal with it and move on.
What really got me this season was the staggering shortage of goals. It simply beggars belief that we have been left wanting in this department, and if you want a damning (if rather freakish) statistic that puts everything into perspective then it is this: consider that we only scored SEVENTEEN goals at home all season - that's in 19 games, last season, almost ONE HALF OF THIS TOTAL came from just one game alone - the final fixture against Man City.
If that doesn't make your eyes water and your heart rate increase then I don't know what will. In fact those last two games of the season we scored TEN goals and conceded just one. Quite an incredible stat when you look at it in isolation. This year it was almost the opposite at times, conceding ten and only scoring one due to our staggering ineffectuality up front. Tellingly, it was also the last time we won 2 league games on the trot.
One can only wonder, what with Southgate still at the helm, whether we will even manage to win two on the trot in the Championship. It seems almost too long now since we had those heady days of winning/drawing runs only punctuated by a couple of unwelcome defeats before we returned to winning again.... well, yes, that's true to a certain extent because all of those happened during the latter years of Steve McClaren's management, which in turn further exposes Gareth Southgate's rein at the club for the predominantly poor leadership that is so clearly is.
Taking stock: just three short years from Eindhoven 2006 - how quickly have we fallen?
It's quite dispiriting when you think about it. And it's no wonder some of the players have become so demoralised as they probably resigned themselves to this inevitable fate all of six months ago even before we beat Liverpool 2-0, with a collective sense of defeatism virtually psychologically-ingrained into them all.
How will Boro unshackle themselves from this deep-rooted, self-inflicted malaise now remains to be seen, but one thing is for certain: Messrs. Gibson and Southgate can dream on if they think they will have Boro as promotion contenders by Christmas.
Fat bloomin' chance. Let's not forget that almost every single season in recent memory, Boro are at their very worst at that precise time of the year, aren't they? Results have never told lies!
Come on Anthony Vickers, you have a duty to tell the fans how it is.
Why can't the gazette come out and say that Southgate has to go. What good is it going to do by letting carry on as manager. Where is the evidence that he will get us up? where is the evidence he has the ability to rebuild the team and turn them into a unit with a natural leader?
**AV writes: I would like to think the Gazette - and myself - have been telling the fans exactly 'how it is all season.' We have been saying the squad was to thin, the players too young, too inexperienced and some not good enough. We have been pointing to strange selections and tactics. We have been pointing to the financial restraints. I don't think anyone can say we have been soft on the club. Neither do I think the club can say we have undermined their efforts to stay up. We have kept the faith from a position of critical support.
What you mean is why isn't the Gazette demanding the manager be sacked. I'm not sure the Gazette would take a formal position on that. If we did I probably wouldn't be party to the decision. Such an editorial stance would have to be taken well up the chain of command. I'm not sure many local papers would take such an unequivocal position just as most nationals would not openly declare against a particular prime minister or government.
The problem is that it is a card you can only play once. After that you are diplomatically and politically at odds with the club and the manager and - crucially - isolated from the privileged access you need to do the primary job, which is to maintain the kind of flow of quotes, reporting, information, insight and analysis YOU need to make up your own mind.
Besides, while there is no evidence Southgate will lead a promotion charge there is no evidence he will not. We don't know what may happen. With a change of personnel on and off the pitch, some problems tackled, a change of tactics and who knows, maybe some money, what is to say Boro won't get off to a flyer?
Where would the Gazette be then if we had abandoned the traditional media position of objective neutrality and stuck the knife in to make a populist gesture?
Our job is to report what happens. If the sands shift against Southgate then we will report it, just as we have given voice to fans dissent through forums, this blog, views in the paper, polls etc. That's what we do.
If you want a campaign against the manager then that's down to you. But if you plan a protest let us know because we will certainly cover it without fear or favour because that's what we do to.
Well, no point moaning, Southgate is going to stay, and no doubting Mr Gibsons commitment to the club now is there? Over the whole season I cannot understand one thing, the defence - how when we have international quality players that are getting called to their national squads, yet we cant defend set pieces?
Thank god thats all over .
The complete lack of fight, direction , skill or motivation displayed by everybody concerned was staggering. And to cap it all nobody now seems to be responsible . Its just one of those things ?
This season has shown how desparately awful you have to be to get relegated . Even after months of mind numbingly awful displays a bit of fight and resolve in he last two or three games would have kept us safe .
Instead we got the "same old same old" from everyone involved .
And we are going to repeat the recipe for next season ? I shudder to think who we will buy in the summer given Southgates track record of signings .
I foresee a season of struggle played out in front of meagre crowds until SG finally accepts its time to take the decision that should have been taken months ago .
Southgate has to be sacked due to non performance in his job. Why is he still here? Get Coppell, Curbishley, or Souness in.
Rob Mitton / Giles
It was my old school motto and that is what was written on the badge. Just goes to show what these academics know....
Kev Bouttell
You know I'll be there mate, keep believing.
CB
Football didnâÂÂt relegate us, it was our dismal attitude combined with a misguided belief. SouthgateâÂÂs standards of acceptance set the rot and didnâÂÂt it show when we needed players to battle. We were down from the moment West Brom did the double over us without even breaking sweat.
SouthgateâÂÂs choice of player on many occasions also contributed greatly to our downfall, because he never had the balls to take the obvious options. The only gamble he took was backing Alves to come good when he should have been fed reserve team football.
He may be a nice guy, but we donâÂÂt want a nice guy manager. We want someone who is willing to slate players when that action is called for, not put an arm round their shoulder. Bernie Slaven used to tell it right, but instead of listening they switched the guy off.
Now they will be reading the GazetteâÂÂs sports features in depth to find out what went wrong and where. Some people in Middlesbrough Football Club seem very easy satisfied these days.
Okay - now, in anticipation of the dust settling amongst all the recriminations and post-mortems, let's just get two other issues out of the way shall we?
1) Will Southgate FINALLY do the honourable thing and get rid of his mullet?
2) Will Boro jettison the GARMIN sat-nav sponsorship of their club strip?
I wonder because I do firmly believe that both of these have played a major part in the downfall of this club - especially number two - the irony of which surely cannot go unnoticed anymore when you consider how difficult it has been to find the goal, let alone score them!!
I think the decision to allow Southgate to stay on as manager is a kick in the teeth for every Teessider. It is a statement that says "you're from Middlesbrough you deserve nothing of quality". Southgate as Boro manager, Stuart Bell as MP what next ? How about Aliaidare for captain ?
There is genuinely nothing personal in this because I was a committed and patient supporter of Gareth but his performance this year has been so poor that I dont think any amount of mentoring, training or patience can help him. He is beyond help - nothing to be ashamed of, some people can do it some can't.
Just consider the following: his management of Johnson, Downing, McMahon, Cattermole, Morrison ,Emnes, ONeil, Digard, Alves, Wheater has been anything BUT management. His preference (favouritism) for Tuncay and Aliadare is open to see and baffling. Marlon King Vs Mido ?Marlon King Vs Billie Jean King ????????
His treatment of Turnbull is the clearest case of cutting your nose of to spite your face I have ever seen. He basically picked on a young lad to show the world that he 'wasn't to be messed' with and he 'could swing the axe'. It was pathetic, immature, inappropriate behaviour that summed up his judgement.
He will destroy every component of the club. He's wrecked the team, his next step is to alienate the fans and before you know it the academy will be being blamed
Get Strachan, someone with professional pride.
Just seen that Gate proposes to strengthen the squad in terms of quality and numbers for The Championship campaign.
I'm presuming that on numbers, his benchmark is what we had in the Prem and the qualities will be those that are needed in The Championship.
What I stuggle with is - if this is an investment worth making to try to get us up again why was the investment to keep us up not made?
Comparatively, the latter had to be a better deal.
Both assume that Gate and those who work for him have a clue as to how to source and secure these players in The Championship scenario - we know they didn't in the Prem.
Hey has anybody seen or heard from Geordie Lurker recently !
I think he has been eating all the (humble) pies !!
I wonder if we are getting to the point which Robbo and MacMoses reached where it doesnt matter what they say, it will be disected for anything that can be used to batter them over the head.
Whatever Gibbo says tonight will probably fan the flames. It may well be a case for many that Lambs ill judged 'with us or agin us' will come home to roost.
Many fans may well take the view it is Southgate or us as far as buying season tickets or buying at the turnstiles is concerned.
We are stubborn group of people and Gibbo is made of the same stuff, it would be terrible if we had some sort of stand off.
As many have posted above we looked at the situation last August and were concerned at the gambles being taken with the squad. We have repeatedly expressed further concerns as the club lurched from miss selection to miss selection, as the coaching team couldnt come to terms with the Early Learning toy where you have to fit shapes to holes.
Even the early season form came with warnings that if you have 40% possession and all the other stats in the opponents favour then you will come unstuck.
As out shotless strikers disappeared from sight the pressure grew on the defence, ever more unbalanced formations were tried because we didnt know what to do.
The transfer window chaos was just a reflection of the state of the club.
The relegation was no surprise to anyone but the club.
It is a tricky time for people running the club because they are indicted with misuse of resources. Now they tell us the squad isnt right and they will spend the summer getting the balance right. I thought that was what they were paid for last summer as well?
We will still support the Boro because that is the nature of the disease but many are not happy with MFC. (Sorry Nigel, the differentiation between the two is just as valid as ever). Whether they will be appeased by the words of even Steve Gibson is another matter.
On the bright side its back to a genuinely competitive league and one where referees have no agenda dictating a clear advantage in favour of four clubs.
Its down to chairman and manager to give the club a team with a chance of a level playing field though. And many of our academy products have proven themselves more than capable at this level whilst on loan to this level. Mind you they worked with decent coaches and managers when out on loan!
Ten grounds I have never ever been to and 3 others I have not been to since the 1970s - hmmm I might even start to go again!
AV wrote:
âÂÂGibson will not be scared into kneejerk action by the crowd. far from it. If he was then he would have got rid of McClaren several times over years before he delivered Cardiff and European glory.âÂÂ
This comparison of Gareth with Steve McClaren doesnâÂÂt really work for me. I know that many fans were critical of McClaren, but even they would (grudgingly) admit his contribution to the club.
In fact, the famous âÂÂseason ticket throwing incidentâ occurred almost two years after the Carling Cup victory. By then, McClaren was already the most successful manager in the history of the club and, in my opinion, had nothing to prove. I agree that many didnâÂÂt seem satisfied with that, but I wonder how they feel now?
During McClarenâÂÂs time, the whiff of relegation was occasionally in the air, but never for too long. The criticism seemed more of the inability of his team to push on into the top six. GarethâÂÂs allegation that the club has been flirting with relegation for years is not true, and simply an excuse for failure. Relegation wasnâÂÂt on the agenda until he dismantled McClarenâÂÂs side and created his own dismal version.
And McClarenâÂÂs dismissal was never being demanded by an overwhelming majority of the fans, as it is with Gareth. See your own Gazette poll, which showed over 80% calling for Gareth to stand down. That is, before it mysteriously disappeared, along with the survey of fansâ opinion. Both seem to have entered the same Bermuda triangle as Philip TallentireâÂÂs pledge yesterday to tackle relegation and the causes of relegation.
Events proved Gibson right not to sack McClaren, because he left the club voluntarily shortly afterwards, for compensation, and his critics had nothing more to complain about. But equally events have proved him wrong to stand by Southgate, whatever happens from now on.
Gibson is pursuing a high risk strategy in sticking with Gareth. When Southampton were relegated, they had a âÂÂhugeâ debt of ã25m. We are told today that BoroâÂÂs debt has somehow been reduced to a âÂÂmereâ ã30m. So what has gone so badly wrong at Southampton? Simply this, they have failed to win promotion back to the Premier League.
**AV writes: The moans about McClaren started long before Cardiff. In fact two weeks before Cardiff Boro played home to Leicester and there was widespread booing and demands for him to go. If you remember winning the cup was deemed "just papering over the cracks."
We had the polls and the letters and the special reports pro/anti and demands from fans that the Gazette come out and demand he be sacked. Now apparently everyone supported Mac every in of the way and we all want him back.
In response to all the negative posts on here, how many of you were in the stands on Sunday?
We only sold half our tickets! No wonder Gibson wants to reduce the debt as it appears he can't rely on much fan loyalty. It is a two way avenue. We've been punching above our weight for ages, thanks to SG's cash. He has earned his money and I don't blame him for not wanting to waste anymore.
Championship fans. Championship Team. Championship club. At best. Being there on Sunday I think most who attended don't care what division we are in and want to support the club and watch their local team play a good game of football and have a pie and a pint!
AV,
I'm finding it hard to follow this thread as many of the observers of this car crash are giving witness statements so long as their points are some-what buried.
OK, perhaps I'm being a little unsympathetic to the mourners as writing down your feelings in a moment of grief are said to be theraputic. But most are simple saying Southgate was not up to the job - which brings me back to your response to 'uxter' you said:
"The best way for managers to get sacked is to spend money badly but Southgate has never been given a 'warchest' to spend. Each transfer is decided on the basis of a costed business case, like a business rather than the idiosyncratic world of football where clubs let under pressure bosses spend ã20m on players - then sack them."
All I'll say is that Southgate spent over ã20m on Mido, Alves and Emnes with very little to show for it - are you saying it wasn't his decision to buy these players? - if so then who did buy them?
I also agree with John Powls that giving Southgate a six month extension to his 'Judge me after this season' is simply a risk not worth taking.
**AV writes: I am saying it was not his individual decision. As with every transfer the chairman and chief executive had as much of an imput as the boss and that as it was a collective decision there is also collective responsibility and so not as much pressure on him over Alves as people may expect.
I've been reading the posts for a few hours now. Time for a bit of light relief, I hope. There was a bit of a Latin flavour about some of the earlier efforts.
May I suggest "Aut disce, aut discede". My pre-war Middlesbrough High School contemporaries will immediately recognise their old schol momotto "LEARN OR DEPART". Oh, Gareth ! If only you'd gone to a decent establishment.
As a Boro supporter for over 80 years, I think I've probably seen it all before, but seasons like this still hurt. Such a waste, so avoidable. Nevertheless, I think I agree with Kev Bouttell, we've still got to get behind the team and Steve Gibson - we've no-one else to vote for.
If you can stand a bit more Latin, "Erimus" - We shall be (the town's motto). My sight is not too good these days and I live quite a long way from "home", so I don't get to many matches these days (my friends say I'm lucky, but what do they know?) So my support will have to come from the armchair, unfortunately, but I hope most of you will help create a second coming of the Riverside revolution.
Thanks AV, I enjoy the blog, it keeps me in touch with the real fans. Just one thing: when you get to my age, talk about long-term plans and one for the future really get up my nose. I was being told not to buy any long-playing records when Extended Play 45s were the big thing.
I'll never read this paper or view on line again.
I am DISGUSTED by your sycophancy towards Gibson. You never question a single thing that man does; clearly he is the messiah in your eyes. To blindly sit back, when the fans are in uproar, and not question Southgate is unbelievable. You should all be ashamed of yourself. GIBSON OUT!!
**AV writes: That's nonsense. The chairman certainly does not feel I am a sycophant or uncritical. I have consistently taken the club to task whenever I have felt it neccessary and without worrying too much about any personal flak.
But the bottom line is this: I have long supported and argued for the new economic model (in fact I found myself on the wrong side of the club back then when I was denouncing the crazy spending sprees as unsustainable) and this season I have found myself in the uncomfortable and unusual position of defending the club on what is a controversial but fundemental issue.
I said at last year that it was time for belt tightening and lowering of spending and expectations. I know that the sub-text there was the risk of relegation so I can hardly squeal about chickens coming home to roost. Part of that model is cost control and a new corporate structure. I think it COULD possibly be the best way of delivering a healthy, viable and sustainable club in an industry that is dominated by the economics of the madhouse.
But like most fans, I still criticise the product on the pitch for a lack of organisation, motivation and spirit - and at times a lack of ability. Like most fans I have been angry, frustrated and baffled by some teams and displays this season. Like most fans I think Southgate's PR this season has been appalling and the club's policy of retreating from the mounting problems and simply crossing their fingers is wrong. Unlike most I am not looking for a blood sacrifice.
Instead I want a coherent strategy laid out by the club that will engage the fans. We need to be united as a club if we want to get back and that means the club have to be honest about where we are, where we are going and how we will get there. They need to win the arguments or we will collapse into a squabbling mess.
I want to help shape and promote that debate and I won't do that by grabbing my pitchfork and torch and leading the mob towards the Riverside.
An Open Letter to Mr. Gareth Southgate from Mr. Jeffrey Wood:
Dear Gareth,
I like many other Boro supporters would like you to reconsider your decision to stay on as Manager of M.F.C.
My reasons are quite clear in my mind. I do not think you have shown in your three year tenure of the club any ability to manage, coach, or motivate this club. The majority of fans now want you to leave. So you should go.
The players have proved by their actions that they wont stay to play for you. So you should go.
Only an outstanding Chairman, supporter and magnificent person that is Steve Gibson will back you to stay.Out of loyalty nothing more. So you should go.
Steve Gibson should and still could in my opinion be knighted for his contribution to football and the Boro in particular. Football fans in every part of Europe sing his praises. However you and you alone by your decision to stay on as manager could and in my opinion will bring him down with you.
If you fail miserably again as you have done for three years now the fans will inevitably turn on him. He is Boro through and through. But nobody is irreplaceable and nobody is bigger than the club not even our fantastic Steve Gibson. He being the man he is could not stay on at M.F.C. if the fans did not want him to.
Now what I have to say now may seem cruel but it may get through to you. Back in Euro 96 you stepped up to the plate. You showed that you would not walk away from a challenge. Brave man. However you did not have a record as a penalty taker. There was then as now, no evidence that you could succeed.
There were however players around you then who although they were scared or declined to step up to take the spot kick did have good records as penalty takers. Why could you not think to put your arm around one of them and just say come on if I take the kick we lose where as if you take it we will win.
At that time if your honest Gareth, I bet, it never entered your head to hand the baton over. No not you. No it was more about you, not your country, not winning, not about the team. You let yourself, your manager, team mates, your supporters and the whole country down then.
If you are honest with yourself, you should admit you never even considered the options open to you. After all penalties are a lottery.(YES). Well actually (NO) its all about percentages. Ask yourself this question. If you could go back to Euro 96 now, what decision would you make? I think you would miss that penalty all over again. Am I right?
Well Gareth if you carry on as M.F.C. Manager you will not be letting your country down, you will be letting down one of the best men this country has ever produced and certainly the best chairman M.F.C. has ever had. For his sake, please go. We dont want to lose him.We can not lose him.
So come on Gareth be a man like the Sunderland Manager who did a better job than you but still realised his limitations. Pass on the baton to some one who can do the job whilst we can still think of you as a hero lifting that cup.Please Gareth for Steves sake.go
**AV writes: Are you suggesting Southgate should resign in favour of someone who hasn't got the bottle to take a penalty in a big match?
Listening to Steve Gibson and the radio and looking at the FMTTM and ComeOnBOro message boards I have to say "how out of touch with the Teesside public" Steve Gibson seems to be these days.
I'm sorry to say that the Teesside public have turned against him and he does not seem to see this.
Souness in? That's be out of the frying pan into the fire....
It strikes me that many of the excellent posts in the past 48 hours spring from the heart and head, but are primarily concerned with the author's view on what went wrong and where we should go from here.
Perhaps to give ourselves a more accurate idea of what may happen next, we should look at how the two main men, Southgate and Gibson, are feeling now. How mentally and emotionally battered are they? Do they hurt, how much, and can they put that right?
Anyone who ever doubts Steve Gibson's loyalty and commitment to the club and town is, quite simply, mad and/or worthless. Any opinion of how he is doing in his role however is, of course, valid and should be rightly considered.
Equally Southgate. Our most successful captain, never a whinger and committed to the club and fans. No-one ever doubted, or disliked, him at the time of his air punching, crowd pleasing victory salutes as a player.
We all have an opinion of him as manager and all opinions need consideration as regards his future.
But, for one moment, please think how Gibson and Southgate must be feeling now.
They too will be hurting like hell.
Whatever decision Southgate makes we should support and credit his conviction. He has never come across as a grasping, me-me-me type and we owe him at least this.
And what of Steve Gibson? How much time, money, sweat and emotion has he poured into the club? It would be perfectly understandable if he too felt enough was enough, finished off by public negativity and moaning, and walked away. What will we feel then? Elation and hope? I think not. Guilt, disorientation, panic and sick to the stomach I would think. Times ten, and more.
Yes, we may be all sick to the stomach now but as fans we know we can trust these two men to be making decisions with what they feel to be the best interests of the club at heart.
They may not be right I know, but come on, let's get all recriminations done and dusted this week and then move forward as one. If we don't then we won't move forward at all. We are, and have to be, better than this.
It's a great town, but a small town where unity really matters. Now more than ever.
""The majority of people from Stockton support Sunderland"
Steve Gibson
7:48
26th May
BBC Tees
OHHHH DEAR OH DEAR OH DEAR!
I'm still not convinced about this 'collective responsibility' when it comes to deciding on what players to bring in.
Surely the role of the chairman, aka Steve Gibson is to decide the parameters of transfer deals - e.g. what money is available for the transfer fee and wages, does the profile of the player fit into the overall transfer policy.
The role of the chief executive, aka Keith Lamb, is to negotiate the deal and handle the contract details.
However, the role of the manager, aka Gareth Southgate, is to choose which players to go for in order to make his team better - as far as I know Boro don't have a Director of Football, our scouts may identify possible targets and no doubt agents tout other players.
But ultimately it must be the manager who decides which player comes in - otherwise you are saying SG or KL are building the team and GS is only approving the choices instead of the other way round.
My experience of collective responsibility - I've sat on housing association committees and been a manager under matrix management structures - only means that nobody is actually responsible for decisions and nobody is ultimately accountable. It's a great system to hide from the pointed fingers.
BTW - Just heard SG on the radio saying that Southgate won't be made a scapegoat and he's capable of being a "top top manager" and leading us out of the Championship - so I guess i'm wasting my breath - cue a collective sigh of exasperation...
AV wrote:
"Now apparently everyone supported Mac every in of the way and we all want him back."
Maybe you didn't intend that to be a precis of what I wrote, but if you did it's a rather distorted one. I wasn't starting a fan club for Steve McClaren, and I'm pretty sure that if I did it wouldn't attract a very large membership. Obviously I can't rely on you to sign up.
I'm aware that there are many better managers than McClaren, but I'm also aware that Gareth Southgate is a long way from being one of them. I think you wouldn't find too many Boro fans who would disagree with that statement.
My main point was that, though he may not have been liked, McClaren was never as unpopular as Southgate is right now, so the two cases aren't comparable. You don't dispute that, and I think it would be difficult to dispute.
As for the booing you mention, it has been routine for a long time for the fans to boo any below-par performance from the team, sometimes even at half time. Unfair perhaps, but they are the paying customers, so why should I criticise? The withdrawal of booing during the "Keep The Faith" campaign didn't improve the performance of the team in any way. That campaign seems just to have been an exercise in never giving a sucker an even break.
I don't recall anything very out of the ordinary at the game you mention. A better comparison might have been the booing that Robson received on his final lap of honour. That did produce a response from Gibson.
I'm afraid I don't recall anyone ever saying that winning the Carling Cup was "papering over the cracks", so I don't know what you mean by that. I do remember half the population of Middlesbrough going to Cardiff, a nervous match, a celebration afterwards and a victory parade in Middlesbrough. Do you think that will ever be repeated under the current management?
**AV writes: I would say that McClaren was far more deeply unpopular that Southgate is now, for far longer and for a far wider range of reasons. People took against McClaren very early on - his tactics, his PR, his attempts to leave for bigger clubs, his obvious self-serving ambition - and it was expressed in very personal ways. That he subsequently went on to be successful just served to deepen it because people were then also angry that he had proved them wrong.
I think most people started liking Southgate, respecting his honesty, his intentions and his history with the club and that the antagonism has grown as results have gome sliding towards oblivion. I don't think people hate Southgate, just that they think he is out of his depth, will not be successful and that it is all a bit sad.
As to Robbo, the booing on his final lap of honour made no difference whatsoever. The wheel were already in motion to bring in McClaren. More pertinent may be the just as noisy and heartfelt booing the season before (a 1-1 draw with already relegated Watford). Gibson ignored it completely as he will not be swayed by the crowd so long as he thinks there is still mileage in his man.
I am going to stick up for the Gazette, just watch the Uncle Eric video.
From what we know of him as readers he is red through and through but he has a real go at Boro in his own way.
The Gazette has a tricky line to tread and it appears AV has more freedom than most because he can pose the questions and we can fire the bullets.
Moving on to McClaren I will repeat my view that Gibson may well have been secretly pleased he left and got compensation. BBC had a poll at the time and 25% of respondents voted for Mac to be the next England manager. Most of those were Boro fans voting several times. I even heard a rumour BulkHaul employees were told that if the didnt vote the right way they would be disciplined! (Joke!)
He had reached the end of his time, the club had to move on to address the fundamental faults. I will repeat the facts yet again, even in the season we qualified directly for Europe from the league we only got 20 points from the last 18 matches.
The Eindhoven season was fraught in the league as the ageing, highly paid squad was only playing in the glory matches. I will remind people again, that no coaching course be it in England, France, Holland or wherever advocate going three down in European matches before coming back to win 4-3. Seville were too good for the MacMoses keep it tight and hope for the best mantra.
Gibbo saw the writing on the wall and moved onto the prudent model. He pays the cheques and makes the decisions and the model may well be correct. I am not in a position to judge on that issue.
Where I can comment is on what I see and I repeat again the club are indicted of gross misuse of resources. It isnt all Gates fault but some of the tactics, selections and messages from the club beggar belief.
Gate has a lot to answer for but so have some of the people who have left him to take the flak including players slinking off in the posh cars who probably never have to work again.
At face value Gate looks incapable of turning things round.
I listened to what Steve Gibson had to say tonight and his general response was that: 'There will be no scapegoat at this football club'.
If all at the club are to blame for this then Southgate appears to be untouchable. How can anybody be held accountable when there are no apparent areas of responsibility.
I've backed Southgate for the first two years...I can't watch this torture any longer. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Mowbray, Strachan, Martinez, Curbishley, Pearson...I would have any one of these managers who have ACHIEVED ahead of Southgate.
The next two seasons are CRUCIAL...if we don't return within this period...i fear the worst for our beloved football club.
GIBSON ACT NOW BEFORE IT REALLY IS TOO LATE!
To lift the gloom and depression of relegation, at least our away fans can enjoy a trip to Scunthorpe next season.
**AV writes: Great. A new ground. I am already excited for next season. Bring it on.
Well done Steve Gibson, stirring stuff. If I ever had any doubts about Gareth, he's removed them.
As far as I'm concerned, Gibson deserves our loyalty and if he says Gareth is the man, that's good enough for me.
Maybe I am not a "real fan" but I can't work my self up to feel suicidal about relegation. This is my sixth time. It hurts a little bit, I feel a little bit peeved and a little bit embarrassed but no one died and you won't ever find me pictured on the front of the local paper blubbing like a Geordie.
That's football. Only a fool would think we were immune to the possibility of relegation , especially when we stop spending big. Teams our size are one always bad season away from the drop.
Neither do I expect Southgate to be hung, drawn and quartered on the Ayresome Gates. He hasn't had a great season but I don't think he will need telling where it has all gone wrong. I'm not daft enough to think I know more about the game than him or have spent more time weighing it up Gibson.
I won't be demanding a scapegoat. I never railed against Robbo, Lennie, Bruce, Maddren or Murdoch when we went down. They all had perfectly good mitigation and besides, irrational anger at strangers is not good for the blood pressure.
And I won't be writing a personal letter to Steve Gibson in green ink with key points IN CAPITAL LETTERS enclosing my defaced season card and accusing him of breaking my heart, killing the club or insulting me.
The bloke has bankrolled an incredible era of a new stadium, regular cup finals, world class stars, Cardiff and Eindhoven. I think he has a get out of jail free card if we have a predictable and manageable set-back, no matter how badly the sensitive, the ungrateful and the loud-mouthed take it.
Sometimes I feel I have very little in common with these foaming mouth zealots who believe their own life is at stake with every 0-0 draw at home.
Sorry, but I can't work myself up into a frenzy. There is plenty of far more important things to worry about. Football is just something I do on Saturday.
I'll see you in August no matter who we play, no matter who is the manager.
So now ungrateful and unrealistic Boro fans are moaning that Steve Gibson addresses the public within 48 hours of relegation and "tells it like it is".
Sometimes I despair. Would any other chairman do that? Front up to the public and explain where it went wrong and what he intends to do about it? When is Mike Ashley on Radio Newcastle?
You might not like what Gibson has to say but you have to respect his honesty, his integrity and his determination to put things right. For people to accuse him of selling the club short or lowering his ambitions shows breath-taking stupidity.
The small minded people of Teesside never seem to know when they have a good thing. They would rather slag Boro off for not being Barcelona than take pride in and enjoy what we have achieved and who we are.
Similarly they attack AV for not agreeing with them 100%. This blog is an excellent forum for thoughtful consideration of all things Boro and has encouraged informed debate and "sensible" dissent. I don't think any other paper has this kind of intelligent outlet. AV even seems to welcome (and revel in) critics of his and the Gazette's views when it would be far easier to press the delete button. I know I would tell some of the people on here to get knotted.
**AV writes: Thanks for the support but I am big enough and ugly enough to take any criticism that comes my way. It comes with the territory.
Dear Gareth Southgate...
Gentleman ??? Good guy ???
That's as may be, but throughout your tenure you repeatedly and repeatedly stated that this was to be the season that you were building for and that this was the season that you were to be judged.
You did nothing but slag off McClaren at every opportunity in order to excuse your own inabilities and you did nothing but bang on about this being the year that your masterful talents would come shining through.
Well they didn't. You're a busted flush. You're no good at the job and the facts speak for themselves - RELEGATION. So why are you still here ???
" JUDGE ME THIS SEASON " you said.... ...and now all we get is your pathetic excuses and have to hear you say that you won't quit. WHAT?! Man of honour ??? YEAH RIGHT...
Stick to your word and go. The vast majority want you out and as such you must do the honorable thing and stay true to your word.
By the way Gareth, in case you forgot. You chose the damn backroom staff and now you say we need a big clearout.
OH. MY. GOD.
AV. Is anyone going to get the chop for this car crash of a season ???
AV writes:
" I am saying it was not his individual decision. As with every transfer the chairman and chief executive had as much of an imput as the boss and that as it was a collective decision there is also collective responsibility and so not as much pressure on him over Alves as people may expect. "
I agree totally with this AV. Hence, ALL THREE SHOULD GO in my book in favour of a new era.
TB
Latin quote dropping seems to be in vogue.
MY old school motto (Holt High School, Liverpool - before being dragged, kicking and screaming to the Boro!) was 'certum pete findum' - aim for a certain goal!!
Relevant or what?!
I wish Southgate all the best for the future but would prefer his future to be somewhere else. Remember, he's been capable of doing the ruthless thing with players, when he's thought it necessary.
Just re-heard the interview from Mr.Gibson on BBC Tees, and incidently that was an amazing insight into goings-on within the football club, found it very insightfull and educating.
Just wish that i had been home from work and had installed real player quicker otherwise i would of definatly phoned in.
My question to Mr.Gibson would have been that given that GS has quite successfully masterminded our demotion to the championship, and taking into account that he will certainly be our manager next year, with an aim to gain promotion, what next if indeed we gain promotion?
Can this man really get us into the premiership and if so then what? fighting against relegation, most probably, with championship players.
It almost feels, no certainly feels like we are starting again from scratch. How can GS possibly maintain our PL status given that he's already gotten us relegated!
Dont get me wrong, I think he's the ideal man for the job under Mr.Gibson's football experience, but he must see the light and that GS has failed at the highest level and must go after that.
Unfair it may seem considering that GS (hypothetically) gets us promoted but no, someone more experienced would be nicely welcomed.
Its going to be a very interesting summer, and i hope we dont sign players that are ONLY capable of playing in the championship, but players that we can keep hold of and rely on in the premiership. Barry Ferguson would be a great signing!
Additionally, and i might be going out on a limb here with you fellow boro fans, but keeping hold of Marlon King would be a bonus. I personally feel he would thrive in the championship, not quite a premiership player, but he'd so well in the league bellow.
Up the Boro!
Richard Evans ... good post mate. Nothing new from Gibson tonight as expected.
But SG's commitment to Boro and Teesside remains intact and his belief is as strong as ever. He really must have the power of his convictions because the fallout around December this year will be heavy if he's wrong.
Please reread my earlier post and Richard Evans. A disunited club will only serve to make things even darker. "It's not dark yet...but it's getting there", sang the poet. Let the light in! Can we start a thread about who we should be looking to recruit this summer(players, not managers!!)
Well quite amazed by the chatting here. All I heard from Gibson tonight was: "Yes your all right and I agree.... but i have a feeling, trust me...buy tickets."
The debt gone shifted side ways helps gives the impression of spending but no promise! Gareth is going to be manager that is clear. Does he have the ability? Know he doesn't but hey... Gibson thinks he does so I will believe for 2 games!
Well put, "football is just something I do on Saturday" or put another way, get over it!
Mr A, you have finally come up with a term to counter 'foam handers', now we have the 'foam mouthers'. Very descriptive and spot on.
What's all this stuff about not being able to support Boro whilst GS is manager...how does that work? You either support Boro or you don't. They could put Donald Duck in charge and we'd all still support...wouldn't we?
On the bright side it obviously won't take me as long to read this blog next season as many of you clearly don't intend to return, although I won't hold my breath. AV, you provided a long and detailed response to the poster who declared (somewhat implausibly) "I'll never read this paper or view on line again.". You would have been better off simply saying "OK goodbye".
Enjoy the summer all.
First of all, I hail from Stockton, and I have never supported Sunderland. Stockton FC when they existed, and then Boro.
Haven't heard Gibson's interview, so look forward to reading the summary later today when the Gazette publishes it.
At the beginning of the season, the current squad was lauded as 'the best we've ever had' by Keith Lamb, and now it needs strengthening, improving. Why has it taken a season for the management to realise what the fans saw at the start of the season?
Southgate is clueless, and cannot manage. That is evident after three years in charge. He asked to be judged on this season, and this season has ended in relegation, so why is he still here? For all the lessons he's goes on about, which has he learnt? Possibly only the one about the squad not being good enough.
I haven't yet heard the Gibbo interview so, for the moment, I'll stick to the bit I did see on TV.
The point he made about Gate not being made a scapegoat is almost entirely specious. I - and many others - have argued that there is a collective responsibility for the trashing of our Prem status, but Gate's position as manager means he takes a very significant part of that.
I have no wish for him to be scapegoated or to take the walk on his own. That wouldn't be fair. It's clear that Gibbo's not going to go, despite admitting mistakes - and it won't be The Count either.
I don't want Gibbo to go but I can't say the same for The Count.
Many players are going to go anyway, for a variety of reasons.
But Gate should go and he should be joined by a good number of others whose contribution was so lamentable - Malcolm Crosby (who?), at least some of the coaches, the fitness and conditioning people and the scouting set up.
We need as clean a slate as can be got and a fresh start with people who know what they are doing. And I don't just argue this on the basis of all the repeated errors of omission and comission that got us relegated this term but because I have no confidence and no evidence that - given the opportunity - the people above will give Boro the best chance of an early return to the Prem.
OK, Steve Gibson has spoken and his mind is made up and we'll all look foolish when Gareth Scapegoat wins manager of the month come August proving that he's once again on the up - sorry that was last season.
Whilst I admired SG's sentiments and ambition about wanting to reclaim his place as a PL chairman and compete once more, I'm not sure that having an inexperienced manager in charge will lead to such a scenario.
But why should Boro be a training ground for potential managers to learn their trade? How many will ultimately make the grade? And if they do prove to be a top manager - will they stay with Boro or would they then move on to 'bigger' clubs once they are have shown their capabilities.
If this strategy is the way forward then let's apply it to players - why not pick a team of eleven 18-year old players from the academy and let them play week in week out, regardless of their performance until we discover if they have what it takes to be a top player in a few years time - this would be done knowing that around only one in three will make it.
If that idea sounds absurd then that is what SG is suggesting as a management strategy - by all means plan for the future but let's not forget football is played in the present.
I always think the best way to react at the end of a season is with a kneejerk reaction....It's best to smash everything up & start again. Sack everyone, get rid of the Chairman & the Manager, sell the squad as well. Root & branch reform is what's needed. The last thing we need is consideration of what failed & change it & build something for the future that might be stronger.
It amuses me when people say Gibbo should go, who exactly is going to replace him?
It is like being between a rock and a hard place.
Gibbo is owed a huge debt by the fans for what he has done for the club and we should trust him and instinctively we do. He isnt Mike Ashley or Freddie Shepherd, we are not a club with delusional fans who have got through four managers in a season.
We have spent three years moving towards a sustainable model for the football club, it is full of decent people who are all Boro fans. All the backroom activities were reviewed and changed to come in line with the new model for the club. We have certainly spent substantial sums of money.
The squad and coaching/fitness side is now all of Gates doing, acting in unison, following the Riverside Revolution. We have a Holy Trinity moving forward together to a bright new world.
Difficult to square this with finishing behind a club disintegrating in the full glare of the publicity.
We are not going to have a scapegoat but we are going to dismantle everything and start again. The same people who created the unsinkable ship are going to build another one exactly the same with the same crew in charge.
As I stated in my previous post I can only go on the evidence of my own eyes, I see nothing to suggest Gate will turn it round. But that is Gibbo's call. The danger is that if we get it wrong again and have a poor autumn then Gibbo may have to act then. That would mean tearing everything up twice in six months. It looks risky to me.
But make no mistake, I have been to Doncaster before and I will go there again. Same will go for my mate Powls, he will be off to Reading and Watford. We may have doubts about what MFC are doing but none about supporting Boro.
As you will realise from my blog name I found Steve Gibson's reference to Stockton embarassing last night. I hope we get some kind of acknowledgement of this publically.
If I was Steve Gibson I doubt I would stand behind Gareth because he's made too many obvious mistakes over the last 6 months for me.However I'm not the person who has just restructured our debt to reduce it by two thirds so it is not my call.
The bottom line in this now is that the decision has been made.I took it from what he said that his patience is not limitless,that there will be changes behind the scenes and changes on the field having identified a lack of goals, toughness and leadership as the problem.I also took it that he was fiercely determined to get us back up at the earliest opportunity.
Roll on the changes,roll on some new players and roll on August 8th.
**AV writes: Most of Stockton falls within the five mile radius "safe zone" so you should be immune to the ravages of the highly infectious gibsonni mackeminella
Wow, so many postings and all relevent - but where to now?
If Gareth is staying will have to leave that alone now. Crosby and Cooper well i think they need to be changed with new coaches for keepers, defence, midfield and most importantly strikers.
The team start off like McClaren did; solid keeper who will bring confidence to the defence which I feel is good enough if they all stay and we can keep Huth and Riggot off the treatment table with good coaching.
Midfield this is the most important area as i said earlier a Danny Murphy type player and Digard, Johnson,creativity.
Strikers well it will be bad news if Bruce goes to Sunderland as Mido may have to come back. Alves and King PLAYING TOGETHER for a change would cause problems in the championship and would save us money to spend in midfield.
There it is guys lets go forward now and see what we can come up with.
I do accept the point that once the Gazette demands Southgate's head on a platter, they are left in a rather delicate position should he carry on. A lot of uncomfortable interviews I imagine. We may be blaming the messenger, but equally, a lot of people do feel some very deft spin has been spun about Gareth and no one is really pulling the club up on it.
Soutgate is living a charmed life. Managers are judged on results and nothing else. The reason Mac is better than Robbo amounts to little more than Heskey's equaliser. Tough but true. Football is about winning and the great managers won things, often with a bit of luck, but they won anyway.
Young Gareth appears to live a in world where everyone excuses defeat after defeat and, despite all empirical evidence, claims he is actually a good manager. The only bit he struggles at is the part of the job description that mentions winning games of football. The important stuff, being nice, smiling, not being Steve Maclaren, etc, he does just dandy!
Obviously he's not going any time soon so we just have to accept it.
On the matter of Alves, I think the manager always takes responsibility for a signing. He may not have total say in who comes in, but unless something very very strange is going on, he will suggest signings and certainly be able to veto players he does not want. Southgate will have wanted Alves and vouched for him, perhaps SG thought he was good as well, but it's still Southgate's call. Anyway, signing Alves may not have been the real mistake, it may have been signing Alves and putting him the hands of the wrong coaching staff.
Oh, I thought most people from Stockton supported Newcastle?
Who is to blame?
Look no further than these words in last nights Gazette written by AV, quote, âÂÂLess money could have been spent far more effectively â as demonstrated by a host of other clubs of similar means. For that, the top table triumvirate of Steve Gibson, Keith Lamb and Southgate must bear collective responsibilityâÂÂ.
Therefore, it wouldnâÂÂt look good if the other two sack Gareth Southgate would it, when they contributed to all the tears which fell after the West Ham game.
When one goes from Eindhoven to Scunthorpe in three years as AV also said, then itâÂÂs time for wide scale changes, because who would want in with this failed crew in the Championship.
We have a goal scoring machine called Bernie Slaven who loves the club and could have been a wonderful help to our front men when the drought set in. He pinpointed many errors on the radio and paid the price for telling the truth.
Lamb is old hat, or does he too hold a watertight position amongst the mess?
Anthony:
You are letting your guard drop when you tell us about the "good value" to be had down in the championship with "4 extra games for free".
Footballing super-size me. Bye bye caviar (Arsenal & Man Utd) Hello 'corn donkey' (Barnsley). People won't swallow it.
The main thing to come across from the Gibson interview is that he's still as enthusiastic as ever about the job...thank God. He's given us the best 15 years this club has ever had.
His comments about Stockton worry me. I doubt he'd have said it if there wasn't some truth in it. If its true, and I know that lots of people north of the river do support the mackems and geordies, then it needs to be addressed because we just cant afford not to have the WHOLE of Teesside behind its team.
I actually wrote to Gibson 12 years ago about this and received a non committal reply from Keith Lamb. I doubt that Gibson ever saw my letter.
What I'm going to say is controversial so brace yourselves and try not to give me a knee jerk reaction in the groin! Before I say it though I will say I was born and brought up in the Boro.
I propose that the time is ripe for a name change to TEESSIDE UNITED so that all the people in our conurbation feel that it is their club. The good people of Stockton, Billingham are all Teessiders so lets get them fully on board. The Teesside brand is a strong one....and it will stop any excuses for some people north of the river in Durham supporting a Yorkshire club.
We should continue playing at the Riverside and in our traditional colours....just change the name to reflect where our support comes from. After all...the biggest club in the land Man Utd were once called Newton Heath!...didnt harm them!
Steve Gibson might as well try and sell the club. The fact is that he has lost touch with the fans, has alienated a lot of others with his ridiculous remarks about a local club for local people whilst dismissing a lot of Boro fans from Stockton as being Mackems.
On top of this he kept repeatedly harping on about being a small town in Europe and North Yorkshire and the being smallest town in the Premier League (we're not), and he was constantly referring to the most succesful ever period in Boro's history. This success only came in a competition that is even not as highly rated as finishing in the top 4 these days.
Boro have been a decent cup team for the last few years but despite all this success Gibson speaks of, we have only won the least ranked trophy out of the lot.
The most successful Boro team ever was the one that finished 3rd in the 1st Division. Quite frankly the league positions during Gibsons reign have been abysmal more often than not.
Thanks for your efforts Mr Gibson, but you and Keith Lamb are now in danger of outstaying your welcome.
I know that Steve Gibson has said in the past that one of BoroâÂÂs strengths is that when any important decisions need to be made it is just a matter of the Chairman, the Chief Executive and the Manager sitting down, having a chat and deciding what to do.
It seems that this also applies to team selection, tactics, and buying and selling of players. If this is so, then no wonder the team looks as if it was built by a committee!
WasnâÂÂt it Brian Clough who said that the best number of people to select a football team was threeâÂÅ and two of them were permanently absent!
If Steve Gibson believes so much in Gareth SouthgateâÂÂs ability to drive this team forward then he should let him get on with it and forget this collective responsibility rubbish. LetâÂÂs see what he can do without interference and then weâÂÂll know if heâÂÂs big enough for the job.
'Footballing super-size me. Bye bye caviar (Arsenal & Man Utd) Hello 'corn donkey' (Barnsley). People won't swallow it. '
So you go to the match to watch the opposition?
Have those people that claim the Gazette are pulling punches read the article at the top of this blog or any of the recent AV articles? Hardly letting the club off - pretty direct and honest critique. Anything more would not be proper journalism but the nonsense the tabloids involve themselves in when they target a manager.
I understand the frustration on here but the situation will not be improved should the Gazette become the Witchmaster general - it will mean less insight into the club and it will put good managers off coming to the area.
I for one think this blog has been the silver lining of this damned season; it has established a community that many feel has been missing and it provides succour for the angst-ridden and frustrated - not just the articles but the opportunity for some sage posts by some excellent fans.
Long may it continue!
Dear AV and the Editor of the Gazette...
Why can we not get your readers to decide Southgates future in a poll? After all, a local paper should reflect it's readers views and it should let them have their say, shouldn't it???
It's easy... Should Southgate get the sack - yes/no
AV, I respect you even though we don't see eye to eye many a times, but at the end of the day we all know that the reason the Gazette won't run such a poll is that they are in the pockets of MFC and fear the fall out.
During the season you could argue that it was not the time to run such a poll, but what is the excuse now?
TB
**AV writes: The website has run that same poll a dozen times this season and I think again yesterday. We are far from being in the club's pocket and in recent weeks we have given an area the size of Wales over to readers' comments.
But I think you are going down a dangerous road if you think that public opinion should decide a manager's future. This is not Newcastle. How many times would McClaren have been sacked before Cardiff and Eindhoven?
stockton red said:
âÂÂAs you will realise from my blog name I found Steve Gibson's reference to Stockton embarassing last night. I hope we get some kind of acknowledgement of this publicallyâÂÂ.
I wouldnâÂÂt take it too seriously. ItâÂÂs just another of the clubâÂÂs bogus statistics. Not quite as far-fetched as GarethâÂÂs claim that the only people calling for him to step down are not old enough to remember BoroâÂÂs last relegation twelve years ago (do I really look that young, Gareth?), but pretty improbable.
Steve Gibson said on the Brownlee phone-in that 90% of the Riverside crowd lives within five miles of the stadium. As AV points out, that includes sizeable chunk of Stockton, but SteveâÂÂs figures canâÂÂt be correct anyway.
The FA Premier League National Fan Survey 2006/7 says that the average distance from the ground for Middlesbrough fans is 36 miles (14th largest in the Premier League) , much smaller than Man UtdâÂÂs 77 miles (surprise, surprise), but rather larger than WiganâÂÂs 22 miles.
The only way to reconcile SteveâÂÂs claim with would be that the other 10% live over 300 miles from the Riverside on average. ThatâÂÂs places like Brighton, Cardiff and Aberdeen.
I can only assume that Steve meant 50 miles. Still, losing a zero like that is a bit worrying for the man in charge of the clubâÂÂs finances.
What was the size of that debt again, Steve?
**AV writes: The PL survey is based on a small random selection of ST holders. Maybe some of our fans in London, Kazahkstan and London outweighed the local lads who live two miles away in Haverton Hill or Billingham.
" This is not Newcastle. How many times would McClaren have been sacked before Cardiff and Eindhoven?"
Is this a wind up comment? We have just been relegated for God's sake. We are no longer talking about the event before, but the event after.
WE. HAVE. BEEN. RELEGATED.
Am I missing something here AV? The manager is responsible for buying, selling, motivating, coaching and bringing on the players and he alone here is to blame.
Had he had restrictions in place he should put on the record now what these were so that we can see just who is to blame. These people should be politicians. Are we seriously saying that no one gets the sack after this almightily bad season.
" Judge me this season " Southgate said. He didn't say anything else, he didn't qualify this with anything else and so must now surely walk.
Why doesn't he go AV? I'll tell you. It's because he is not a man of honour and because he knows he won't get the sack. What an absolute sham and right stitch up this is.
TB
**AV writes: It wasn't a wind up, it was a response to your suggestion that the Gazette should install some kind of institutional kneejerk mechanism where we demand someone should get the sack on the basis of a poll of people responding in the heat of the moment. That way lies cyber-mob madness.
As I said in my previous post I would not and did not listen to the Radio Tees "Love in" sorry "Phone in."
Reading all the comments above however it appears that it was even more absurd than I had imagined and the Sunderland comment cannot have been true surely? I think someone probably once said to SG that Stockton is full of "Markets" and he thought they said "Makems" (compare the Makems dot com?). As we now know he seems to have developed a hearing disorder or at least only hears what he wants to!
Its a real shame, there are ways to deal with difficult situations other than an Ostrich stance. History decrees that with leaders their reign eventually comes to either a glorious or ignominious end. I sincerely and genuinely hope that Steve's reign ends in glory but I see a horrible parallel to "The Lady's not for turning" speech from 1980. We have had 28 Chairmen from 1886 to the present day, no doubt Steve has been one of the best if not the best (there are around 20 well before I was born so can't comment on them all).
I just hope for Gibbo's sake that when Gareth takes us out of the Championship it's not to League 1!
**AV writes: "The PL survey is based on a small random selection of ST holders."
The survey was based on a not-so-small sample of 1,233 Boro fans, 386 responding by post and 847 online. Seems unlikely that the odd season ticket holder in Kazakhstan (even assuming they gave that as their permanent address) could change it from under 5 to 36.
The Premier League publish their information. Has anyone seen the data on which Steve bases his claim? Is it available anywhere?
And how did he arrive at the conclusion that people from Stockton all support Sunderland? Where did he find the data to support that?
Patrick-Steele:
I go to watch a football match (2 teams) and I want one of them to win.
That being the case I'd sooner watch the Boro play Liverpool or Chelsea than say Blackpool or Gillingham.
It's simple really, I also work on the principle that 38 games in the premiership is better than 42 games in the Championship.
Making a virtue out of relegation is insulting - it's feeding us dog dirt and calling it chocolate cake ! People won't swallow it - well most people won't.
Back to Latin.
Our Acklam motto, as Ian Gill and John Powls can testify, was Aut Nunquam Tentes Aut Perfice -never do anything unless you give it your very best shot. If only our Boro squad had tried that this season - both in shooting and effort terms, then we might have finished in safety. If only the manager had been able to motivate them to give of their very best in every game till the final whistle !
Well, no point in moping. Gate is here to stay, for now at least. I've called for his head often enough but it hasn't done any good. I think Steve Gibson is making a big mistake, 'cos I'm just not sure Gate has what it takes, but there's no point in moaning any more - as many others have said, we have to get behind the team and the push for promotion.
And I will. But I'm not renewing. I live 120 miles away in Lancashire and this season has been a terrible grind. It must be bad enough going home to Stockton after yet another desperate home draw or defeat, but driving back my distance has been mind-numbing.
I missed the Man City and Hull games, so I only saw 3 wins all season at home (incredibly, I did see Boro win away, at Wigan). The rest was dross.I only actually enjoyed 4 games all season. I need a break and I certainly haven't got the time to watch 23 games at home, several of which will be at night, so a season ticket makes no sense for me now. I will travel up to see 10 or 11 games, and I will definitely cheer the lads on at far-flung places such as Leicester and Blackpool.
I definitely would have renewed if we had stayed up, Gate or no Gate. But relegation has meant I will pick and choose my matches. No doubt there will be many more like me. Sad, very sad, because it was all so avoidable.
I read the comments about Southgate being loyal, well who wouldnt be in his position? no matter what he does its always good enough.
If any one else was as bad in their work, the boss would sack them without a second thought. Maybe the clue is in his surname SOUTH---gate. I was led to believe south means down!
Why am I the only one who believes Avram Grant could do a fantastic job for us. Has he not been with smaller clubs than us? Oh yeah, and he failed at Chelski didnt he. yeah, second in the prem and lost to manure in the Champions League. Obviously a loser, no good for us then.
Top drawer manager for us, thats what you want isnt it gibbo. Three years ago, European footbal. Where does the next three years take us? Div one? Still itl'l be a nice day out on the coast at sunny Hartlepool, assuming they dont go up at the Boro's expense. Happy summer hols everybody.