Derby Draw: The Balance Sheet
THE POSITIVES: Stewie played, looked well up for it in the first half and looks to be enjoying his newly liberated role, plus that particular distraction can now be put behind us until the summer; the fans rallied round him and turned out in force and in good voice; the "Boro Goal Machine" scored a cracker, in open play and in the Premiership to suggest there is enough in there to help claw us to safety; Josh Walker and Didier Digard looked as good an engine room combination as we've seen all season; and despite a chaotic last ten minutes and the now mandatory gifted late leveller we did not throw it all away in stoppage time - but for Tony McMahon it really would have been a 'typical Boro' moment.
THE NEGATIVES: Boro had three points in their grasp and let it slip when one really wasn't enough; the injuries to Walker and Digard which changed the shape and tempo of the game; the fragility of squad and thinness of the bench was exposed again as a defender was sent on as a makeshift midfielder; playing none up front for long spells against a team that was there for the taking - apart from kicks and picking the ball out of the net did Turnbull touch the ball?; the panic in defence at dead balls; the now mandatory gifted late leveller; Mido's undisciplined wandering deep in his own half when we were chasing the game; a little boy lost display from midfield spectator Julio Arca; Tuncay is off colour, ineffective on the wing and a shadow of the player he was three months ago; the failure to cash in when other key games down the bottom were iced off; a chance to claw Sunderland back into the mire was missed; nine without a win.
*Sigh*
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Anthony Vickers
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Great to see Alves score another and he and Downing are setting up quite an understanding up front.
I think Tuncay was wasted on the wing and should have also had a free role off Alves. If Alves gets injured we will be in deeper doodoo. I still think we need to load another central midfielder as yesterdays game was another reminder.
I hope Wigan beat Spurs today. The league is still pretty close and 3 points would have really lifted the gloom.
Come on Boro
Is Downing better in the hole behind the striker than Tuncay? No.
Is Tuncay better on the wing than Downing or Johnson? No.
Is Arca better on the left wing than Downing? No.
Let's get back to playing players in their right position rather than for the sake of tinkering. Southgate is totally blunting our creativity and width.
I think a point will be enough for now. We would have felt better with three but we'll be OK. We still have some games that we can win. In the end i reckon we are gonna finish the season on 47 points which should be enough for safety.
I know everyone was saying Sunderland was a team we should win against but derby games aren't easy. I thought it would be a draw anyways.
Glad to see the supporters giving Downing their full support and in return Downing giving a committed performance. Alves also looks to be slowly getting back on form. One of the main reasons in my opinion that we are looking down rather than up was because we expected at least a goal every two games from Alves alone, and of course that didnt happen.
I have full confidence in Alves, Downing, the rest of the team and Southgate. I dont think we will be relegated and while Euro may look to be gone via the league there is still the FA Cup and the long shot, the Fair play table, which in contrast to last season looks like a possibilty
Anyways I just bought my first Middlesbrough shirt (I live in South Africa) so I'm really excited about that, will wear it with pride even if we do get relegated (which we wont).
UP THE BORO!!
Dear Mr Gibson Please give Gareth Southgate a "vote of confidence" (i.e sack him). Nice guy but hopeless man-manager and clueless at team organisation and tactics. Three seasons, 100 games+, and it's still utter rubbish. More than fair bets for relegation (yet again). How much more of this can we - and you - put up with?
I dont blame downing for wanting to move, just look at the useless job Southgate is doing. No wins in nine games says it all for me. The tactical genius pairs up Bates and Arca in midfield against the mackems. It sums up everything that is wrong with the way the team is being set up and managed. The sooner he resigns, the better. Bring in a proper football manager like Curbishley.
Our next win could very well be in the championship. We seem to have lost the knowledge on how to do it. Tuncay is the only true pro we have. He runs all day and never says die but he cant do it alone and I think he will be off at his first opportunity - and who could blame him?.
It really is depressing week in and week out seeing late goals conceded and constant long balls punted upfield to waiting defenders who then don't even have to challenge for possession. It seems to me the onlt times we string a few passes together is when we are going backwards toward our own goal.
If you thought today's game was tough, wait till next week at the Hawthorns. They were a mite unlucky not to have got something at Villa Park
Another stop start performance. A great goal from Alves and Downing showed the rest of the team how to service the Goal Machine. When will the rest of the team follow suit and understand it is a pointless exercise pumping long g balls up the centre or for that matter from the wings to Alves as it is only providing the opposition with an easy defensive situation.
I had to laugh at the commentator we had on Sky Sports Australia when he said Alves side footed the ball in to the net. What piffle. It was a full blooded drive on the run that was perfectly executed by Alves.
It proves he he can score great goals when supplied with the right service, he did not do a great deal throughout the match but if he can finish like that every week he is worth his in place in the team.
Our wonderful commentator kept mixing up Pogatetz with McMahon and Digard with Pogatetz. He also said on one occasion that Sunderland were making a counter attack when in fact it was the Boro making the counter attack. Where do they get these so called commentators from?
A point is a point but we are still in dire straits as to our position in the Premier League. Let us hope we can get ourselves out of the precarious situation in the next few weeks.
Definitely a mixed performance against the Mackems. Great to see Alves finishing his only real chance with aplomb, but typical of us to allow them a late equaliser !
I am a bit perplexed with fans on here (& other forums) criticising the manager for bringing Bates on in midfield. Who exactly would they have liked to replace Digard following his injury? The only recognised midfielder left on the bench was Emnes, who we are all aware is very lightweight & does not have the required PL experience to cope with a competitive derby game. Especially one where the opposition were already beginning to exert their influence following the earlier loss of Walker. It may not have been ideal, but who could have anticipated losing two central midfielders during the game ?
I believe the loss of Digard was the turning point in the game & I believe we would have hung on for all three points, had he not been injured by a reckless challenge. In the corresponding fixture last season, we saw Arca & Tuncay kicked onto the treatment table within the first 40 mins of the game. Yesterday saw Walker going off in similar circumstances, before Digard was replaced. I am sure their management would describe all these things as unintentional, but I am afraid I do not believe in coincidences.
Here's to the goal machine keeping up this form in the next few games, & helping us to some much needed three point returns - UTB
I have just watched Wigan do Boro a favour in beating Spurs 1-0. In a workmanlike display Wigan deserved the win and should have had more goals for their undoubted superior play on the day.
Why oh why would Stewart Downing want to join this band of misfits who unless they improve out of sight will be going down this season. I could not believe a team with so many so called stars sitting on the bench could play so badly.
On the other hand I watched Manchester United dismantle Chelsea in no uncertain manner and must now be favourites to challenge for the title.
Let us hope Josh Walker is not too badly injured as he looked to be a great prospect and we need Digard fit and firing for the run in.
I am hanging on to the old Cloughie mantra if you can't win, make sure you don't lose. So a point was welcome despite the nervous ending to the match yesterday.
The comfort I draw in our perilous predicament is that Sunderland for one, are a poorer team than us and there are three worse teams somewhere in the league, one of which is Hull who are falling like a stone.
That aside, under the present tactical set up Tuncay is being sacrificed to allow Downing to play behind Alves. We struggled because we did not get Tuncay in the game often enough.In fairness the disruption to our central midfield seemed to induce panic and defeatism that made it easier for Sunderland to equalise and almost steal the match. We need to show more bottle if things go against us.
One good outcome, a bad end to the week for the 'barrow- boy 'Arry', no Downing and an injury time defeat to Wigan. What joy!!
I only watched a brief re-run of the game, we couldn't get it live over here, but from what I did see Downing seems to be reveling in his free role.
The drawback seems to be that Tuncay can't seem to figure out which piece of the jigsaw he is meant to be. He's not played well since his hat-trick game for Turkey, and switching him around isn't helping him re-discover his form. I'd like to see him play as an out and out striker in a 4-4-2.
However midfield is still a major area of concern. The Digard/Walker partnership worked well according to the reports I read, but Arca is nowhere near the player he was. The fact is though, we just have no-one else to put in there, so if money is to be spent, or loan signings brought in this is without doubt the critical area.
For their goal you have to wonder where our left back was, why Turnbull didn't attempt to cut out the cross, and why both Riggott and McMahon let Jones get in front of them, schoolboy stuff. Without Johnson's extraordinary back heel flick off the line we would have lost it, which would have been a travesty.
I witnessed and have read nothing that indicates to me that we are improving, and that's another 2 points lost to a team fighting against relegation. I'm sick of looking forward to the next game, then the next and so on, expecting that things will come together, and listening to the same "lessons learnt" rubbish from Southgate and some of the players.
Boro quite simply haven't learnt anything since the loss to Liverpool, on how to keep a lead and close a game down, particularly in the final quarter. Now this probably has much to do with a lack of the right personnel, but tactics play an enormous part in it too which if anything is the most disappointing aspect with regard to Southgate and Co this season, their apparent lack of tactical nouse. I would take a bet that McClaren would have got 3 points on Saturday!
This season is beginning to look and feel more and more like the end of the Robbo era all over again. Southgate is floundering, but there is no Venables in the wings waiting to make an entrance and save our season and ultimately our 11 year stay in the Premiership.
Anyone that thinks we are not in serious trouble need to take a long hard look at the performances of other teams around us to see that we are becoming detached. The form table doesn’t lie. It will take something extraodinary to get us out of this mess.
Sunderland did nothing untill the last ten minutes and then they had to crock two of our players again. I liked the look of Walker and Digard in the middle,but would like to see us play higher up the field during parts of the game.
We are inviting the oposition to attack us for too long periods, (I understand counterattacking formations) but this allows them to build confidance and puts our defence under too much pressure .
Although a fan of Cattermole I can understand the sale of him,. Walker looks to be a little more usefull on the ball,were still in a lot of trouble and I for one have resigned to us going down, that way it wont feel as bad when it happens
What does Johnson have to do?
I'm reminded of the "Buffy" TV episode where a school girl is so ignored by her classmates that she physically disappears.
Johnson only saved the point with a back-heel on the goal line after defending well for his entire stint, and looking dangerous in attack as well - and he still can't even get mentioned as a positive? If Johnson had started instead of Arca, we would have probably ended up with all three points.
Getting £2-3m for Arca in the window looks like a golden opportunity at this point - I don't recognize the player he was before his injury.
The most annoying thing about the Sunderland match was Southgate's tactics.
Yes we struggled to cope with the loss of Walker and Digard but I really do not understand why Southgate then brought on a defender (short of match play) to fill a hole in the midfield. We had Mido sat on the bench - why did we not bring Mido on and go to a 4-4-2 formation. Bringing on Bates just gave us no attacking option and put more pressure on the defence - which we cannot cope with.
Southgate tells us that he has no money to spend in the transfer window. Maybe we should think of offloading Arca. We could get James Beattie for about £2m. He's not a permanent solution but could he not do a job for us until the summer!
We need to win at West Brom - which is not going to be easy. We need Southgate to get out of the "lets try and defend a lead" mentality and play attack minded football for 90 minutes.
Ken
I'm afraid I absolutely do recognise Arca as the player he was before and after the injury. The Argentinian Land Crab - as Ian calls him, the surviving Tippy-Tappy Twin in my terms.
But he's a Gate favourite - so, like some others who should be squad players at best he continues to find his way into the team even when square pegged into a place like last Saturday.
This sort of stuff, coupled with 'you don't know what you're doing' style team preparation, motivation, organisation and set out, is a big part of why we are where we are at present.
If you add that to the shenanigans at Crockliffe with lack of fitness, injuries and slow recovery and the club caused mess in the transfer window then you get what we currently are - the table doesn't lie.
Even The Count in his Programme Notes from The Mackems game 'Red Square' muses on why we aren't getting the best out of a talented squad.
We are an averagely talented squad, limited in numbers in Prem terms that consistently performs at lower than that level. We could and should be doing a lot better. Unless we start doing so very soon - like next Saturday - then only radical changes will stand a chance of pulling us out of the malaise before it's too late.
It seems those changes will not come by additions to the squad - if we don't sell, we can't buy and it's been made clear that no-one of consequence is going. Whether you count Mido (or Arca) as of consequence is another issue. But if the best that Gate can think of for Mido is to swap him for Alan Smith he may as well stay.
So, it's about changing what the squad are doing by what is being done with the squad. If the people who should change what is being done with the squad can't or won't then......
AV
Interesting edit to my last posting.
**AV writes: You know how it is.
I can take few positives from a dire game of football on Saturday other than the promise of Digard/Walker in central midfield and Stewy's attitude.
Gareth Southgate really needs to give his head a shake.He is not helping his players with poor team selection and tactics.
1.Why line up with the same tactical system that was used against Man Utd away?.We were at home against a moderate side always going to play 4-4-2
2.Why not match up and take the game to them.Can you think of any occasions when we got the ball into the box with any bodies to try and attack it? I cant.
2.The 4-2-3-1 system adopted uses a player up top that cannot play on his own and with his back to goal and 3 offensive midfield players every single one of them out of position.Tuncay cant play right, he is a central player and Arca simply does not have the legs.The result was a totally disjointed performance from an attacking point of view.
3.Blue eyed boy Arca is guarranteed to start no matter how poorly he plays.
4.We have a German International who is the best centre back at the club when fit to play. Why is he on the bench to accomodate Riggott a journeyman pro.
It really is not that difficult. Play your best players in the positions they play best in and you give yourself the best chance of success. My team for WBA in 4-4-2
Turnbull Mcmahon Huth Wheater Pog;O'Neill Digard Walker Downing; Alves Tuncay
Gareth Southgate is in the last chance saloon for me. Either get your act together or get out.
We have, supposedly, the best left-sided player in the country. We are told other teams want to pay large sums of money to sign him to play on the left side of midfield and whip in good crosses so the attackers can score.
Only an idiot would nullify an attacking option like that. Only an idiot would play tuncay wide right after seeing him perform to his best in a central position. Only an idiot would think Julio Arca is a left winger and capable of providing good service to the front men. only somebody who is tactically bereft would start with one up front at home against a team struggling almost as badly as we are.
At one point in the game we had 3 centre backs 3 holding midfielders 2 left wingers and a right back,oh and a striker, on the pitch. One could say the balance was not quite right. I would prefer to say that our management team and so called coaching staff are clueless and out of touch with reality.
If, probably when, West Brom do the double over us (incidentally they are bottom of the league) that will be 10 league games without a win that will leave us 16 games to play, of those sixteen we play the top 5 who are all battling for champions league places. Where the points will come from to stay up is anyones guess.
I am afraid we have given Mr Southgate a piece of rope which I fear he may hang himself with. After witnessing saturdays performace it was obvios to all and sundry that the players have stopped playing for the manager,probably because they realise he does not have a clue tactically.
Gareth Southgate is a nice bloke and was a great player for us but nice is not always whats required when the chips are down and at the moment they most certainly are down.
Admittedly there are a few players out of position and I dont agree with Tuncay out wide but with the size of the squad we can afford and the injuries we are left with a bench that cant cope, especially when our central pair get roughed up by Sunderland.
Surely nobody can complain about Downings free role as it has produced 3 assists and kick started the goal machine. If Downing was glued to the left none of those assists from the right would have happened.
If we can maintain the fitness of two out of three - Digard , O'Neil and Walker - then it should be them behind Alves and Tuncay and Johnson and Downing to be free to swap wings .
If Downing wants to drift to supply Alves with balls to feet that he can score with then great. We need to get forward in more numbers anyway to score more than one!
I hope we can get more of our players fit for the next match so we can have our best 11 out and have a bit of quality on the bench.
After Wigan beat Spurs I felt a lot better .
I have paid my season ticket money for a number of years, and for that I DON'T expect to see a team challenging for europe, I DON'T expect to see a team winning a trophy and I DON'T expect top be misled with false promises.
What I do expect is to see a team of players who regularly give their best for the club, a team that plays for 90 minutes NOT 80, a team that doesn't give away points to inferior teams, and a team that finishes outside of the relegation zone.
None of my expectations have been realised yet this season but I sincerely hope that my final expectation, listed above, proves to be to be realised - Are my expectations really too high??
Nice to know i am not the only one in South Africa with a Boro shirt.
The game for me was lost when the injuries hapened but as everyone has said the tactics were wrong from the start. The best results we have had has been with Huth in the back four, Digard,Oneil and Downing Alves and Aly or Tuncs up front.
As far as I know only Aly and Hoyte are the ones injured - can this make so many problems? Only when you change the whole formation for two players.
Due to my exiled status I couldn't see the match live, so was restricted to the repetitive-strain-injury inducing "refresh" method on the internet. Not an exciting way to "watch" the match as it is, but when the quality and "action" is as good as Saturday then it makes me think forgetting the whole thing would be more fun.
Cue surprise when the team sheet popped up. I scanned the names and the colour drained from my face. No Johnson for Ali? Arca still getting a game? OK, let's move onto formation...
Naturally I presumed a simple 442, but hang on, who on earth is playing wide right? Arca? Downing? Walker? I just could not work it out until about five minutes in the text commentary explained Downing was in a "free role" and Arca was out left, Tuncay out right.
WHAT!?!
GS has lost it. Totally lost it. His decision making has completely gone to pot. The only positive for me is that we got 1point and some of our relegation rivals got less.
I seem to be saying/typing/thinking this every year - but next week is a MONUMENTALLY HUGE game (it needs the capital letters to fully explain the importance). Win and we get the monkey off our backs, lose and erm, well I really don't want to contemplate it. If we do lose though then I'm afraid GS' time may well be up. He asked us to judge him on this season - I think he should judge himself.
Oh, and in a side issue I notice the MFC website has got GS emphasising the positives of Downing's performance and the crowd reaction. Yes, Downing played well - but if anything our totally predictable capitulation only gives me further reason to totally back Downing's powers of perception. I'm not surprised he wants out.
I also wish GS would shut his bloody mouth about positives. There is nothing positive about our league position - shut your mouth, get the players in training and sort it out!
Let's start with a back-to-basics 442 against Brom, who haven't got the strongest defence as it is.
Some people seem amazingly unaware that not only was the referee incompetent or at least short sighted. Sunderland had one tactic in mind once we had scored, they were clueless prior to that point, and that was to take out our creative and energetic midfield, namely Digard and Walker.
As this was a pairing preferred by the manager he could hardly be accused of choosing Bates and Arca as a partnership. They were all that was left after the Mackems had roughed us up. If they had been apprropriately punished we would have won that game.
Instead of blaming Gareth southgate which is all some small-minded people seem capable of we should be demanding more consistency in refereeing.
A tactical disaster!
As James and others have said above, Downing playing in Tuncay's role, Tuncay on the wing totally ineffective instead of Johnson who had a really good game against no lesser a side than Arsenal only a few weeks previously, linking up well with McMahon behind him overlapping, with ironically all three playing a part in our goal that day. And Arca on the left wing instead of Downing?
Granted we could not expect/plan to lose two central midfielders but to put Bates on instead of putting two up front at home in the second half smacked of defeatism.
The club is not in a very healthy state at all, the December build up to the transfer window was appalling and the subsequent handling of attempting to clean up that mess not particularly inspiring or uplifting!
Something has to change and as we run the games left to play down our chances of survival are diminishing. And to think just a few weeks ago players were talking of Europe!
It takes either perverse expertise or grand incompetence to destroy confidence and morale in such a short space of time. Sadly the fans can see it week in and week out but the reality is that our observations are being ignored with an almost despot mentality.
Things sadly are becoming very reminiscent of the beginning of the end of Robbo's tenure when pressure and stress built up to such a level that he literally couldn't make rational functional decisions. I've said it before that we should stick with and support Gareth as he was thrown into this and its not of his making. Even the most experienced sea dog Captains need a Pilot for the tricky manoeuvres, right now Gareth needs support and help in equal doses.
I took absolutely nothing from Saturday other than more confirmation of my worst fears.
Gibson, will you ever learn? Stubborn beyond comprehension. Southgate is not up to the job - are you blind to this? Do you want to see us relegated? I have had enough of this mediocrity and have to question your legitimacy now. If we have no money to spend now (when, ironically, there is more money in the game than ever) then how much will we have to spend in the Championship?
Or is about selling our assets and playing the kids? Methinks so!
**AV writes: You could start by pulling your own finger out my Egyptian friend.
Hmmm...It's not looking too good by the sounds of it.
It also looks like the management team as a whole - from Sir Gibbo and Big Chief Lambie through to Nice but Grim Gareth and his trusty backroom boys - don't have any obvious solutions on offer that will turn things around.
Unless we win against WBA then I fear the Southgate experiment will have run it's course and those who make the decisions will have to accept this and take the appropiate action.
Basically, if we don't have money to bring in new players and the current management team can't improve performances then the only option is to bring in a coach who can make what we've got to perform better.
OK, you could say that there's nothing between the bottom 10 clubs but where are the points going to come from?
We should have finished off Sunderland but as usual they looked more likely to win in the end - we also the only team to lose against free-falling Hull in the last 10 games.
We needed a minimum of 7 points from 12 in January - So if we don't get victory against WBA then make the change before it's too late.
Gareth's learning curve has begun to flatline and we need to save the patient called Middlesbrough Football Club before it's decline is terminal.
Are we the same side that was playing decent attacking football at the beginning of the season? It seems to be a dim and distant memory...
We have the same players, no massive injuries, and yet we are still managing to defend as poorly as before but cant create an attacking move to save our premiership lives.
Surely if we are shipping goals at the back anyway, we may as well start going forwards with the ball. At least we would have something to cheer before the drop rather than the current drivel. We are back to the sort of negative displays that got us rightly jeered and hated by the press, who will no doubt push for out better players to leave even harder when they are forced to drive 250 miles to the cold north east to watch the drivel we are currently serving up.
I agree about Tuncay, looks out of sorts - maybe he was another angling for a move in the transfer window and was told no. Whatever the situation with him, it took us a while to figure out where to play him, we found somewhere that worked just behind Alves, and he was our main creative force - get his head right and put him back there!!!
Stop all this McClaren style messing around with players positions, it smacks of desperation. We need a set formation that the players are used to, and set positions for them.
Lets see Emnes on the right wing - the position he was apparently bought for. If he is too lightweight then sell him. Lightweight players generally don't make it in the PL, so no point in keeping him - he can take a challenge or he can't, that won't change no matter how may pies he is fed by other players.
I see Pogi and Gate seizing on the injuries to Walker and Digard and hanging evrything about Saturday on that single issue. Yes, it was one factor - but only one. To use it to excuse the rest of the failings is a miserable cop-out.
I see that Gate says that the swap deal between Mido and Gate has collapsed, so there'll be no business done in the window, according to today's Gazette.
Two things - if it has collapsed (for which we must all be grateful - not because of retaining Mido, necessarily, but because of avoiding Smith) then it must have been mooted in the first place.
If that's so it's another potentially catastrophic error of judgment that, this time, Gate has got away with - presumably because Smith, Mido or both put the stop to it as they were both threatening to do for their different reasons.
This sort of thing is just par for the course in this shambolic transfer window.
The other thing is, if Boro are prepared to let Mido go, why is a swap with Smith and The Barcodes the only game in town? Are there no other alternatives to get us a chance at bringing in the resource we desperately need?
Mido has hardly played in the last two seasons. Does anybody think we will get more than a mill for him? If i were any prem manager i would not pay.
I think Gareth Is right, get the chaps to play and get their valuations up and then sell. they are worth nothing now, even Downing. Let them perform and let them go in the summer
It appears that as Gate gets closer to his badges his common sense is draining away.
Two holding players, Walker and Digard, I can live with that. In that situation you play four attacking players free to move and switch places. Gate played an Argentinian Land Crab to scuttle and compress the space, twist and turn, do drag backs and lose the ball.
When John and I talked pre match about who would play he said not Arca, my view was that he would play because Gate liked him in the team.
We play Stewie in Tuncay's role and play the Turk on the right flank where his ability to turn the defender only fools the Assistant Referee.
The injuries were unfortunate but if we had got into their box maybe we might have created a chance or two and been more than our obligatory, single goal ahead.
We were missing Aliadiere and O'Neil was out with hamcheststringinfection but square pegging Johnson on the right was better than Arca on the left.
Hull and Pompey are falling like stones, Spurs are back in the mire due to a poor run. You know what frightens me, with all these teams struggling we are still bottom of the form list for the last six matches. 0.33 points a game will not get us into Europe, the only league with champions in it we will see ends in 'ship'.
Off to west Brom, must be barking!
Ricky Sbragia is quoted in The Chronicle as saying after the match:
“I asked the players to step it up in the second half because I felt that Middlesbrough would tire as the game went on, and I think that was what happened.
“The longer a tense game goes on, the winning side tends to become nervous – I don’t know why that is but it is a fact of football and we took advantage of it."
And Sunderland aren't the only ones to have done so! Barrow nearly took us back to Cumbria because of it the week before. And many other teams who have scored late against us this season have benefitted while Boro have capitulated.
Boro have been an 80-minute team in many, matches this season. It's been blogged about here and on Boro Banter until my fingers have become stumps!
For a team of very young and supposedly very fit young men, this is a factor that appears to have had a considerable influence on where Boro currently sit in the league - apart from any other factors of square pegs in round holes and players out of position and the relative merits of different formations.
What ARE the people at Rockcliffe doing??
It is beginning to look worrying. Especially when a team in our position seem satisfied with a point at home.
I wonder who will be sold to fund our security. Chelsea haven’t got a winger and there is a gamble to be taken, because we need goals and points fast.
GS reminds me of Stan Anderson years ago, a nice guy but had no personality. Just look what happened when Jack Charlton took over - won the old 2nd division by 15 points.
SG made the wrong decision in employing GS, just wish he had the guts like the Blackburn board had in letting Paul Ince go. Boro need a Jack Charlton stlye manager NOW.
Also buy some hard bugger like Jamie Bullard to have some aggression. I think the squad is to light and not hard enough. Hope Boro have a good cup run, that might bring confidence back.
Is it so different to previous years? Even under McClaren we were never safe till late with the exception of one or two seasons.
Southgate's changes made sense against Sunderland. Bringing Arca inside left to suppress their most creative player (Malbranque) and moving the play centrally against their weaker central midfield.
Tuncay wonderful player that he is does not have the vision of Downing, and in any case played wide for Fenerbache.
And so we go in 1-0 at half time and looked to me to be boringly if apprehensively safe. With 10 minutes to go the apparently brilliant Ricky Spragia brings on Healey of all people and in a strategic masterstroke destroys all our good work within two minutes.
Why wasn't Reid closed down? Why didn't we have someone on Healey as they moved to a three up front? (Pogatetz was stranded upfield caring for Carlos Edwards) And why wasnt one of our centre backs inspired enough to bring down a mobile Jones or at least squeeze him out before he got anywhere near our box?
Quicker managerial responses to the oppositions strategic changes are required if we're going to survive in this league.
Call this a local Derby? Where was the passion?
How come cast-offs like Lee Cattermole and James Morrison can go to other clubs and fit in successfully.?
Please Boro try and keep the ball on the floor where you can control it and get the
ball to the bye-line so that it can be attacked, instead of a hopeful lob to a forward with his back to goal.
I respect Gareth as a person but if no improvement at West Brom, he must go
Richard,
I too noticed the comment about fitness and mentioned it to JP.
I was too busy ranting to mention it in my last post because I was frustrated with 'website busy' the first two times I tried.
And what are Crockcliffe doing? Who knows? And what a conundrum they face. Deep Heat for O'Neils hamstring or under his nose for his chest infection? Daren't look at MFC to see what his latest ailment is. Lassa Fever probably so he is quarantined until the summer window.
Richard asked: "What ARE the people at Rockcliffe doing?"
Thats an easy one, getting them all crocked of course!
Meantime Gareth considers Wheats at Right Back, Bates in Midfield, Tunacy Right Wing, Arca Left Wing, next will be.....................Turnbull up front! with GON in goal!
So it that it then? Has Teesside's Joe Soap finally turned against Southgate now?
Poor bloke. Him and Gibbo probably thought they had put in a good week's work with progress in the cup and keeping Stewie on board despite his transfer request and stopping all the speculation with a big public rant. That plus a predictable dull derby draw.
And poor Josh Walker. He was crocked the moment they stuck his picture on the front cover of the programme. It's cursed that is. Can't they just do it blank?
Why the panic? If the season finished now we would be safe. Yes, it is tight down there but far bigger clubs than us and ones with far more money are deep in the brown stuff too so it is not something specific to Southgate.
People on here have screamed for managers "like" Mogga, or Hughes, or Redknapp, or Keane, or Curbishley, or whoever but they have all been flawed too. It is that sort of league and spending big doesn't insulate any team bar the bug boys so getting shot of the manager won't make much difference.
We all knew this season would be difficult. We shipped out experience and brought in kids and untried foreigners. The squad was always three or four bodies short and of the ones we had at least two were serial crocks so there is no point anyone on here (or at the club) now expressing surprise.
We are all in this together now, the big boss has said there is no one leaving and he won't sack Southgate so there is no point launching a witch hunt or picking on scapegoats on the pitch.
Let's dig in, create a seige mentality and get behind whoever wears the shirt in every single match no matter what. There is a long way to go and plenty of time for recriminations in May. Squabbling now can only benefit our relegation rivals.
Holgate Ender,
If you look above I had a bit of a rant. I hate it when people start knocking Gibbo simply because he cant spirit £50m out of thin air to blow on players and as a bloke and servant to the club I love Gareth Southgate. It's when you cannot possibly fathom why he has set up the team the way he has that total frustration sets in.
For me it's not even the results - they are decided many weeks on fine margins - it becomes a gradual loss of faith when you cannot understand why he's doing what he's doing.
Out of Saturday's attendance there will have been around 26000 Boro fans. I bet you cant find one who would have predicted that line up or agreed with it for that matter.
Holgate Ender asks if everyone is now turning against Southgate - I'm not so much turning against him but wondering at what point should a club decide a change is all that is left to turn things around?
Southgate is the 5th longest serving manager in the Premiership after SAF, Wenger, Rafa and Moyes - and that's because they have been successful!
No other club blindly persists a with manager that doesn't get results unless they are prepared to suffer the consequences - i.e. relegation.
We did it with Robson and came back stronger - but that was at a time when Boro were in a relative minority of big spenders.
But if we go down now with our £93m debt and thrifty transfer policy we may not see the light of the Premiership for many years to come.
So why risk everything on Gareth finally getting through to the players - ok it's not all his fault but we desperately need a lift and it's not coming with new signings.
We've now gone a quarter of a season without a win and if we don't win against WBA and Blackburn we'll go into February with games against a reinforced Man City, in-form Wigan and top of the table Liverpool already bottom of the league.
So no more excuses please - get your act together or be prepared to get voted off by the public...
Does that sound like an over-reation or panic? You bet it does!
We all want Boro to do well, we do not come on here to witch hunt or get people sacked but the glaringly obvious must be addressed.
We all remember Robbo... the rabbit in the headlights. It happens to lots of managers when they can't motivate the team anymore. Players are too big for their boots these days and if they fall out with the manager and stop performing you are doomed.
Credit to Gareth, he has tried his best and stuck up for them. Quote: "I have a talented group of players at this club." Well they have not showed that talent over the last 10 games.
I went to Villa Park earlier in the season and saw a really gutsy performance against a good team, unfortunately from then on its all been downhill. I don't profess to have all the answers but you cannot blame it all on injuries.
I would prefer to blame it on attitude. Let's be honest, quite a few of our players have not got a good one - and we all know who they are But once players stop playing for the manager, and I think they have for some reason, its a downward spiral. I hope i am wrong but I fear for Gareth Southgate.
Where to begin after the home draw against Sunderland? Two mediocre teams seemed to be trying to persuade supporters that there are other more enjoyable things to be doing on a Saturday afternoon!
There were some bright spots – such as Stewie’s determined performance (did you see his reaction after our goal?) which came after a nice run and a good flick from the outside of his left boot, a good performance from both Digard and Josh Walker until injuries finished the afternoon for both of them, and a very good finish from Alves, for whom we all hope the dam has now broken.
Had we gone on to win, the tone of the posts on here would have been different but, of course, we did not win. The reason is that once they had scored (and everyone scores against us), it was inevitable that we would be holding on for grim death until the end. That we did hold on was due to a remarkable saving flick from behind him by Adam Johnson at the goal post, and a last-ditch tackle from McMahon in the dying seconds. It resembled “rope-a-dope” tactics, except that our football team doesn’t have the resilience of Muhammad Ali and we (not the opposition) looked more like being the dopes at that stage.
In all the circumstances I agree the formation for next week suggested by Stockton Red in his 10.15am post earlier today. Obviously it depends on the injury situation. I realise it may seem a little harsh on Riggott who has been far from our worst performer in recent weeks but, if fit, Huth, is a better centre-half. It isn’t as though our defence has been watertight this season. We couldn’t even keep a clean sheet against non-league Barrow in the FA Cup (and there were some bitten Boro finger nails at the end of that game).
But in my view the real problem with the defence has been caused by the contribution from midfield, which hasn’t protected and supported the defence.
Walker and Digard, when they were together against Sunderland, seemed to offer more than most of the combinations we have put there so far this season. Digard is making good progress. He has bags of energy, can tackle, and can hit a telling ball from midfield (though he can sometimes tend to be a bit ambitious). Josh Walker, for a 19 year old making his league starting debut, played well until injured. He has fast feet, energy, can tackle and – whilst also looking to play others in with a good ball - seems willing himself to go forward.
Without wishing to create some sort of theme in these posts, he will obviously improve with every game he plays and with the experience he picks up. I don’t think he lacks confidence. He looks good at this early stage. Without suggesting any favouritism might exist in our squad, the simple fact is that Arca, at this stage in his career is NOT going to improve. He doesn’t have the speed of Walker, can’t tackle and, although he can occasionally thread a telling ball through to the strikers, regularly gets caught in position.
Few of us on this blog will have coaching badges, but I reckon there would be a very small minority who would suggest (in the absence of a massive outbreak of food poisoning in the squad) that Arca should get a regular game in midfield. One of many things he is NOT is a better left-winger than Downing (or indeed, Adam Johnson). And I agree that Tuncay is better “in the hole” than as a right-winger.
One other thing is that the Powers That Be appear to have been considering a swap of Mido for Alan Smith! I realise that different supporters may hold different views but I reckon few things would unite the supporters in opposition more than attempting to sign Alan Smith.
We clearly have problems with Mido (though if he was fit, roughly approximating an athletic weight, and demonstrating commitment to the cause he could offer a lot) but to suggest replacing him with another who has seen more of the dry dock than the open sea, and who hasn’t scored in living memory, is, to put it mildly, surprising. It would have been a real “Gerald Ratner moment” to have signed him. This blog would have been inundated with posts from outraged fans.
The good news is that the other teams in the bottom half of the league are doing their best to give us a chance of escape. A win yesterday by Spurs would have taken them out of the bottom three to 11th place in the table, so thanks Wigan for that last-ditch goal!
Lots of teams around us are really mediocre and we have, after all, been in the Premier League for 11 years. The teams that came up were supposed to be the most nailed on relegation candidates ever, with only WBA given even a chance to stay up. In those circumstances if we did manage to go down it would begin to look as if we intended it.
I really hope we can turn it around. It is certainly possible. But it needs everyone to pull together, including the supporters. I really hope Gareth can show he can be a good manager. That is also possible. But it requires all the players to show commitment to the cause, and to improve on their performance over the last few months (in fact, since Gareth was selected as Manager of the Month).
If we don’t turn it around we all know the result will be relegation at a time when it could scarcely be worse in economic terms. I hope it will not come to this. But if it does, it would surely be stupidity to look to a FOURTH successive manager who had no previous experience as a manager in charge of a football club. Once might be an interesting experiment, twice a coincidence, three times begins to look like a policy. But FOUR times would be like sticking up two fingers to common sense and would be to ignore lessons that should have been learned.
Actually it shouldn’t be a surprise. If you needed an operation, wouldn’t you rather it was carried out by an experienced surgeon instead of a newly-qualified medic who had never carried out the operation before? Even if there was a chance the newly qualified medic might turn out to be quite good in the future? If some troops were being marched into battle, would it be better for them to know Wellington (or Alexander, or someone with a track record as a general) was in charge of strategy, rather than some chap who had served well in the ranks and is in the process of reading the books with a view to being a commander?
Our chap MIGHT have it in him to become a Wellington. I certainly hope so. But if he doesn’t, the price at risk is enormous and THEN it will be vital to have an experienced manager in charge, to guide us off the rocks. If, as seems to be accepted, we have one of the best Chairmen in football, surely it wouldn’t be impossible to secure an experienced manager for our club? Don’t people want good jobs?
I think we can get out of this. If pressed, I think we WILL get out of it. But I could do without the heartache. The stupidity of it all is that, with a little bit more concentration in the last five or ten minutes of each game, and we could be well clear of the shipwreck the bottom of the table represents. We might not then be at the door of Europe, but at least we wouldn’t be worried about visits next year to the likes of Plymouth, Barnsley and Blackpool.
Sorry about the length…. but you know how it is (frustrating!).
GS can't have enjoyed the experience of trying to manage a larger squad/egos over the previous 2 seasons when he decided to go with this seasons paper thin lot but the consequences of this are really coming home to roost. How we could have done with the Boat on Sat?
A clear out was needed in some respects but the transfer policy has been a shambles. Catts is bossing the midfield for Wigan and Morrison, who went for a mill, is now playing his socks off, and a season later GS blows 3.2 on Emnes. Bringing on a sub defender to play in the middle sums it up for me.
As for Arca, my heart sinks when I see his name on the sheet. Its like watching one of them crabs on Christmas Island trying to avoid the cars, left, right, left, right, splat. Dreadful.
Give Pollock a ring
I haven't posted for a while because I was hoping for an upturn in our fortunes, but…here goes.
I'm worried. I was never bothered by Southgate's lack of qualifications. There's something innate to being a good coach, and no amount of coaching badges will develop that. I like and admire Southgate, and I was excited at the start of the season to see a new and improved Boro, carving teams up with speed and skill. It hasn't happened. So…do we have a plan b?
This is my chief problem with Southgate right now. We don't seem to have a plan b. Let's take Saturday's game. When I saw the team sheet, I was hoping for an adventurous 4-3-3 formation, but instead we had to deal with an insipid 4-5-1.
I don't think we changed tactics at all, despite the fact that we didn't really ever look like scoring (except for the brilliantly taken goal). I don't think we made any adjustments, despite them bringing on Reid and Healey.
Our substitutions were driven either by necessity (Bates and Johnson) or desperation (Mido…I'll never understand the point of making a sub like that with a few minutes to go. If you want the lad to change the game, give him 20 minutes -- like Sbragia did with Reid and Healey). We looked like we were the away team, happy to see the game out for a 1-1 draw.
So the confidence has gone, and we are not playing the type of attractive football that won us many plaudits -- if not points -- at the start of the season. Do we have a plan b? My suggestion for Gibbo and Southgate are to get some much-needed steel and toughness into the team.
John Powls often derides Arca as one of the "tippy-tappy" twins, but let's be honest, that moniker could apply to most of our team. Right now we need grafters and we need passion, and there was very little of that on show. Bar Wheater, Walker, Digard and MacMahon, the others tapped it around and shrank back from tough challenges (even Downing - he had a great game, but mixing it up is not his thing).
If the object of the game was to play the ball sideways or backwards, we'd be the world champs. As it is, we were forced to sit through 90 minutes that had only a few moments of quality.
I'm worried. In the last few seasons, there have always been some absolutely awful sides that could be counted on to go down. Right now, anyone of about twelve teams could go.
We need a new plan, but I fear we will not get one. We're skint, so getting new players in seems unlikely. Gibbo is a loyal man, who will give Southgate at least till the end of the season, and I don't think Southgate will "do a Keegan (or a Keane)" and spit his dummy out. Last year, I panicked in November, and Gareth and the team proved me wrong. I hope I am as equally wrong this season.
I remember Clough, who many consider to be one of the all time greats in management, was never the same without his assistant Peter Taylor.
Perhaps all Southgate needs is a better assistant because at the moment Crosby doesnt look like he is adding much to help the team. Of course I don't know what happens behind the scenes but clearly something is not working.
Anyways I still think we'll be ok. I had a dream last night and it was Spurs and Newcastle along with WBA that got relegated. That would be interesting wouldn't it?
At the moment I can't help but feel that the paint has been bought and the writing is about to be on the wall. The question is, what will it say?
GS turns Middlesbrough around?
Lack of experience costs Middlesbrough dear?
Gibson calls time on GS experiment?
Boro dig in for hard fought win at Brom?
The excitement of being a Boro fan is that none of us can accurately say what headline we'll see over the next week. But excitement of this kind isn't good for my nerves, and healthcare isn't free over here.
As I said earlier in the blog - the club, and especially GS, need to collectively shut their mouthes and get on with it. At the moment all of the GS early/pre-season platitudes are coming back to haunt him.
Judge me on this season - oh dear
Good Attacking Football - 1 goal a game?
Fittest team in the league - for 80mins only?
The problem, to agree with several others, is lack of a Plan B. However, I would also extend that to lack of a Plan A in some cases. Against Arsenal and Man Utd GS got it right, for parts of the game. Against Sunderland he got it woefully wrong.
To be outsmarted by someone with even less managerial experience must be an eye-opener. The worry is that I genuinely can't remember a time when GS has made a game-changing substiution. He needs to get back to basics and play the formation and team which is the best we have. Assuming Digard and O'Neill are fit for Saturday (and Walker isn't) then that team is:
Ross
McMahon
Wheater
Huth
Pog
Johnson
Digard
O'Neill
Downing
Tuncay
Alves
A simple 442 with Jonno and Downing down the flanks. Tuncay also needs to get, and stay, closer to Alves.
Let's just hope that GS sees common sense before it's too late and plays players in the best positions - and also the best players we currently have available.
Well Southgate seems to be using the 'A big boy made me do it and ran away!' excuse for the squad now. Big difference from the start of the season when it was his squad and judge him on it!
All the seasoned pro's have been sold and now we need a manager who can manage the niave youngsters but guess what, we have not got one. Southgate and cooper cannot teach the defenders how to defend so what are the chances they can sort the midfield and strikers? The pro's saved his ass over the last 2 years but they are gone now .....
We [ BORO] have been in the prem many years now and have a stature, many clubs at a much lower level consider Man U as a great civilization within world football . We have always competed with them in our time in this league and relatively speaking we are a great civilization.
I know there is no more money and we are short on tough experienced players to physically alter the course we are on but we as fans have an equal part psychologically to play.
Most people , myself included have been guilty of doom mongering on here and its very catchy. We are not down yet and although brain washed every minute of the day by economic depression we must not let this affect us from within.
Will Durant: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within." Get behind the team!
Judging by Pogi's comments in today's Gazette it implied that all was not well behind the scenes a few weeks ago.
He said: "The last three games were a big improvement in terms of team spirit. We showed togetherness and there was a better attitude from every player."
Can you shed any light on this AV? Was this behind Downing's desire to leave and the plan to ship out Mido? Or am I reading too deeply between the lines?
**AV writes: Clearly the pre-window talk of "sell to buy" and "get your phones calls in early" has the ability to spook players, either because they think someone may be bought in their position or that they may be unceremoniously shown the door and have their family and lifestyle disrupted and as in any job that kind of thing in the background can spark some chuntering. A lot of that may well have been quelled by the unequivocal statements about no senior players leaving.
I also think the true gravity of the situation is starting to sink in for some of them.
Neil, welcome back.
I may be wrong but as I watched the match replayed on Sky the thing that struck me was how limited we were.
You can play two holding players, Arsenal did so with Viera and Pettit very successfully, Chelsea did it with Essien and Makelele.
They make sure there is someone home if the other team come calling. You then play four attacking players and as far as possible play them in the correct position. They still have to track back and do some work but mixing it isnt their role.
With what was available, Alves with Tuncay just behind, then Downing and Johnno on the flanks. They can interchange positions at will within the overall team shape.
What we had was like watching the national lottery without a ticket. If you are not in you cant win, we didnt get into their box. We were limited to a few long shots. The double injury was unfortunate but we hadnt done enough in their area to score goals so we ended up hanging on.
AV's response to Werdermouth above covers a lot of current problems in the squad. What is illuminating are Arca's comments about the players will go if they want to and the other comment that they are constantly trying things out to try to find something that works. Just sometimes less is more and some stability wouldnt go amiss though we are reliant on Crockcliffe getting players fit.
I do hope SG has some cash to spare in this window as I think McGeady from Celtic would be a cracking buy. The lad is passionate and enthusiastic.
Guys Southgate is staying, make no error. We need an experienced manager but like O'neil he would want his own squad. No money to do that and players on hand not worth enough to get players in in time to turn things around. So if Southgate was to go we would end up with another rookie or escape artist Paul Jewell.
I reckon we are stuck with what we've got unless someone on loan comes in. GON and Digard in the middle is our best combination by far and that needs to be in place for West Brom with Huth back in defence.
Damn! Looks like Man city have beaten us in the race to sign Kaka...
Hopefully we can beat them in the race to sign Chris Eagles!
Today's Gazette article on Stewie makes interesting reading.
In it - and not for the first time - Gate denies that Stewie handed in a written transfer request.
But I certainly recall that on the day in question the club confirmed at around 5 p.m. that they had received such a request earlier in the day, had spent the day considering it and had decided to reject it.
Given today's research about the hallucinogenic effects of too much coffee, the Hurworth Nespresso machine must have been having some hammer on either or both of the days in question!
Moving on to 'lessons learned' - it seems from the same article that Stewie will play 'in the hole' again at The Baggies this weekend. In previous pieces it read as though Arca was expecting to start again too.
If Gary O'Neil is back from whatever form of 'sulky sick' was ailing him and with M&S likely to be Crockliffed, that presumably means same formation and personnel with the only change being O'Neil for Walker, unless Tuncay's dropped in favour of O'Neil and it's Arca and Johnno on the left side of the midfield. Ho hum.
Normally, you might argue that a midweek game for The Baggies would be a benefit for Boro - it might at least even up the fitness disparity that we 'enjoy' with other Prem clubs.
But I don't suppose they felt too tired after a comfortable win in what looked a potentially tricky away banana skin. Their new striker got off the mark with a smart finish in only his second game - wonder what that feels like?
Yes, they'll be without Mozza and Bednar who's suspended but will they have the other new striker they're trying to get on loan? Maybe not - the deal looks at an early stage. And then there's Luke Moore who, in his Villa days, used to revel in goals against Boro.
Mogga said that one reason for the confidence of their win against Peterborough was that they had beaten them before on their ground and knew that they could do it. Wonder how he'll be using their win at The Riverside?
This is now a mega-six-pointer that Boro should be capable of winning. But I'd like to believe that Gate's approach wasn't just going to be 'same again but do it better this time'.
**AV writes: The Southgate quote about the transfer request was interesting but it wasn't sinister spin or back-pedalling. It was part of a resigned sigh and 'here we go again' explanation that - because effectively the story is dead - wasn't even used by any of the nationals.
He was asked directly at the post-match press conference "has Stewart withdrawn his transfer request?" and replied: "Well to be honest he never handed a written request in. He indicated to us he wanted to go and the story was already out there in the media and we had to deal with the consequences of that rather than worry about the semantics. Stewart asked about the possibility of a move. He knew we had had bids from Tottenham because that's how they work. "
AV
Thanks for the explanation.
I didn't have it down to sinister spin or back-pedalling but just the usual 'left hand doesn't even know what it's doing - even less what the other hand or hands is/are up to' that characterises the output from MFC at the best of times but has reached epidemic 'foot in mouth' proportions in the run up to and during this transfer window and its co-incidence (or is it more than that?) with the run of form in the last nine games.
Eagles? Hmmmm.... Well, at least he's a proper right winger, despite the flaws (which include the dodgy hair net/band!).
Maybe Burnley would consider a swap for a loan of M&S going to them for the rest of the season for some first team footy and robustness training!
Sorry - more MFC nonsense. Another example of the 'foot in mouth' epidemic I was referring to in my last two posts.
On the official MFC website Gate is saying that Josh Walker's performance against The Mackems makes him like a new addition to the squad (because we're not going to get any real new additions to the squad).
Normally, this sort of tosh is reserved for when someone - like Huth for example - comes back from yet another lengthy lay off.
Forgive me - but was Josh Walker not already a squad member, despite getting spelks in the bum from sitting on the bench. As Ian Gill has reminded us in the past, being on the bench means that they are good enough to be on the pitch.
The problem was Gate not giving him a try despite the dross in the performances of those selected to start. Many of us on here suggested giving Walker a start a good while ago but it took Gate a long time to realise what he's now woken up to.
Now he's trumpeting his lack of judgment as some sort of revelation. Pur-lease!
**AV writes: What I find strange is that Walker has been installed as a key midfield player and his loss as a major blow - by fans mainly it must be said - even though Sunderland was his first Premiership start. That is either a symptom of exactly how thin the squad is or of how quick the crowd are to annoint "the next big thing."
PS
Oh - and forgive me - hasn't our new 'addition to the squad' just been Crockliffed himself and likely to be out for weeks, if not months.
Southgate has lost the plot if he thinks Downing is better than Tuncay in the hole. Get him back on the left wing and Johnno on the right. And play Mido and Alves. Get rid of Arca not good enough now. We need HUTH back in.
Spend some of the TV money from next season or go down.
Sorry but if Downing wants to play for England he has to play wide left. He can forget his international career if he is playing central ebcause he is then behind Gerrard, Lampard and Barry in the pecking order.
Maybe that is why pastures new look so inviting - the chance to continue his Engoland career is gone if he continues to play infield.
The transfer request that may have never been seemed to come immediately after his first game in the centre. Hmmmm
Recent comments from Southgate seem to suggest Downing will be playing in the hole for the foreseeable future - more accommodating players out of position.
Playing our best player and the best English left winger in the country up front just seems McClaren level daft, and to continue it because it worked against lower league opposition doesn't mean it will be effective in the Premiership - completely agree with Johno and Jiffy there.
I could understand playing him as inside left of a midfield 5 with Johnson outside him in, like Zenden, with Tuncay and Alves in front, but displacing Tuncay to any other place in midfield is a waste as we have seen.
Downing appears to be leaving in the summer, so shouldn't we be spending time on getting players like Tuncay who are staying(hopefully) back on form, back in position and happy with the club?
Sounds like Mido is ready to fight for the cause after ruling out a move to Turkey.
He said: "I am willing to remain in the Premier League. If Boro agreed to sell me to an English club then I will go, otherwise I am staying for now."
Such loyalty and enthusiasm is a pleasure to behold in the modern game!
Midfield is a shambles but has possibilities. Downing is far more effective in the 'hole' because he can actually pick out Alves. Shame for Tuncay but he could be slotted into MF alongside Digard or another ball winner - that we havent already sold.
I wouldn't agree with those that assume we should play with two wingers in the PL either so theres room for O'Neil on the right and Johnno on the left, with only Johnno playing the conventional wing role.
Pity we sold Cattermole like, as theres now no cover in midfield - why have we still got Arca and Shawky when the Boat and Cattermole were allowed to leave? Poor decisions. Surely cover will be brought in before the end of the month???
Cant see Downing's England prospects being damaged at all by demonstrating his versatility to play in several different positions. He's also got the potential to be better than Lampard and Gerrard (when wearing England shirts at least) if he plays centrally enough, so I dont think he has much to worry about on that front.
So, two more points lost, and Southgate sees it as a positive that boro salvaged a draw. Well, if he would manage to get his tactics right in the first place, we would have had three points, and more goals!
You have to look at the starting 11. Credit to him for putting Walker in the middle with Digard, because there seemed to be a partnership for the future, but, if we aren't careful, that future partnership will be in the championship!
Downing is a left winger, I don't care about the three assists! Two of them assists were against a non league team who we should have demolished. Get him back out wide where he can get his crosses in and set up goals from the wing, and get Tuncay back up front, or just behind Alves, where he can run into the box and get on the end of them downing crosses!
Then it comes back to Saturday, putting Mido on, who seems to have absolutely no interest for Alves whos confidence will be at a major high, is one of the worst decisions to make! Why not take off Tuncay who wasnt having a good game, and go for the win! It seemed Southgate was content with a draw from the beginning!
Against WBA we need a proper team where everybody is playing in their proper positions - Turnbull, Mcmahon, Wheater, Riggot, Pogi, Johnson, O'neil, Digard, Downing, Tuncay, Alves
Lets go for the win!!!
I absolutely agree with Jiffy that if Stewie expects to play for England, it can only be on the left-wing.
The thing is that we may have another player who could do a left-wing job, at a time when it is thought there are few genuine left footers about. I suppose one thing that might be got out of all this, is that Adam Johnson must feel there is a good chance of a regular place in the starting line-up next season if Stewie goes.
And on BBC Tees they have just mentioned that Josh Walker is out for 4-6 weeks with his injury.
And finally, an offer of £100M from Man City and the player to get £500K a WEEK! How many children are believed, subject to full inquiry, to have died in Doncaster for want of proper child protection action? And how many Social Workers would £500K a WEEK pay for? What if he slummed it on £400K a week, and at then end of the year £5Million were made available to put right some of these wrongs? Where are the sedatives? The loonies are back in charge! Has anyone paid any attention to what is going on in the world?
At what point does a sizeable proportion of us decide to walk away from football if it gets this silly? Northallerton Town, or Billingham, anyone?
I do hope SG has no cash spare in this window as I fear he will buy some over rated joker like McGeady from Celtic . The lad is over rated and injury prone and is a total waste of space.
The media-fuelled, pot-boiling turbulence of last week has subsided, yet here we all are, Boro supporters, clearly struggling to pick up the pieces of a traumatic week and faced with reconstructing and making sense of the way forward for the remainder of the season.
Despite the occasional ray of stabilizing sunshine emanating from notables such as Mr Average, discharging his cargo of calming oil onto the surface of troubled waters, otherwise stirred up by the cathartic (there you go, Mohammad Abdulla - one for you, son!) pronouncements of other frequent and regular contributors, the overwhelming mood in the Boro-supporting communications media has been a predictable mixture of disappointment, frustration, anger, incredulity, despair, hope, more anger and defiance!
Me? I like "defiance"! Oh sure, I do all the others too! But I particularly like "defiance"!
From a supporter's perspective, Mr Average and a few other insightful souls have already hit the nail squarely on the head.
Much as it may be difficult and counter-intuitive, irrespective of what actually happens out there on the field, the support needs to be precisely that!
It won't serve anyone's best interests by throwing season cards or booing mistakes or setbacks.
And continuously nit-picking in a Slavenesque manner about everything the club appears to get wrong, only serves to reinforce a general feeling of negativity.
At times like these, with backs to the wall, we can be united IN our defiance and BY our defiance, and we CAN overcome prejudicial influences of the national media and mischief-mongering by other agents.
Ian,
I agree with you. We looked very limited on Saturday. We do need to get more bodies forward. We sit so far back sometimes that it seems like we are inviting pressure. I think pretty much every game that's been shown here in the States has involved Boro going a goal up and then sitting back and conceding a late equalizer. My kids are then traumatized by dad spewing invective at the tele and uttering words best left unsaid.
Some interesting rumors on the net and Sky. Let's hope Southgate can pull a rabbit or two out of a hat.
On to the Baggies. Oddly enough, they were my "second team" as a young lad in Dormo. I loved their striped kit. I still have a little bit of a soft spot for them, especially as Mogga is their manager, but I'm hoping that we do them no favors.
Shame about Walker. Hopefully the lads can pull out some good results and get us all excited again. We all know how it is...a win or two, and we'll all be looking wistfully at a UEFA spot again :)
Just wached Catts put himself about at Old Trafford. Pity we didnt have him on Sat.
The game was gone from the moment Malbranque put the clog in to Walker and there was no reply from the week kneed Boro. How we miss George.
On to Downing I have stated before I would like to see him in the middle as he has an eye for goal and a shot in both feet. There was a great english left winger who was moved into the centre foward spot - can you remember the great Tom Finney?
Stevo
We dont necessarily have to stereotype players as wingers or strikers. In my earlier post I talked about four attackers within a team shape.
ManU took Chelsea to the cleaners in part because they always had someone available on the flanks to keep Chelsea's full backs honest. Chelsea tend to play narrow and get the width from the full backs.
Playing two in central midfield and giving freedom to the rest to interchange positions is the way ManU and Arsenal have traditionally played.
You will tend to have players in preferred roles to get the best out of them.
As long as the framework is there and people do their shift then you can play two 'wingers'. Going back to ManU-Chelsea, Park/Ronaldo kept Bosingwa/Cole occupied. That allowed ManU to press Chelsea who were forced to play narrow. ManU then could play a relatively narrow back four and compress the space and still have time for Neville and Evra to bomb forward.
This is all well and good but you need to play a higher line whatever the formation so that when you attack and beat a man you are around their box not 40 yeards from your own.
Well here I am back and refreshed from holiday in Thailand. where I watched the BORO throw yet another game away.
I agree with many of the writers above Mr Southgate is taking us only one way and that is down. I do think that the injuries did not help us, but we were second best to so many balls.
Last night I watched the Man U v Wigan game and yet again CATTERMOLE was the man of the match, every time I have seen him play for Wigan he looks a different player completely to the one we had here. I am sure it is because Steve Bruce knows the lads true position and plays to his strengths, whereas here he was shot all over the place. And what have we got? A midfield that just does not function.
Sorry Mr Southgate I have run out of patience with you and I cant see where the next win is coming from. how many games now have we been in front and thrown it away in the last 10 mins?
Reports in this morning's press seem to indicate that Burnley are about to sign Tony McMahon - which given Boro's interest in Chris Eagles it sounds like it could be part of a swap deal.
I find the prospect of selling McMahon at a time when the right back position is looking a bit thin a very strange decision - plus signing another average right-sided midfielder to compete against Ali, Jinky and Emnes seems hardly a priority.
I thought McMahon was just starting to get his match fitness back and would prove to be a useful member of the squad - is there any truth in this deal AV?
I seriously think we're in danger now of being dragged into something we just don't have the quality or squad size to handle.
As much as I respect and admire Steve Gibson I just know he won't sack GS, when did we last sack a manager? Robbo? Think that was a "by mutual consent" jobbie.
So, so sick of us being an 'almost' club simply because we feel the need to 'launch' managers careers. There are loads of top quality working managers out there who would love the chance to work for a chairman like SG, never mind the ones who are out of work.
We're only a small town but the club is indeed a sleeping giant in it's academy structure, chairman and fan backing. It just needs a tried and tested manager to take the reins and give the club and its players a good kick up the preverbial!
Werdermouth,
I totally agree with you on the Tony McMahon thing.
Surely it must be cobblers as he is looking good for us at the mo.
I agree with paul bell. But I totally disagree with paul bell.
**AV writes: It's funny because it's true.