Transfer Window Dressing
BLIMEY. Gareth is taking down the tinsel and comical flashing Santa from the shop window at the Riverside and putting up the signs announcing the Blue Cross sale.
As Boro edge towards what could be the most significant transfer window in a decade it is quite clear that every player has his price, that any player who wants to leave and has a buyer ready to stump up can go and that the boss and the club are determined that wheeling and dealing is the only way to fund a reshaping of the squad.
Roll up! Roll up! Everything must go.
There's still over a week until the transfer windows opens but you can sense that there are some hardy and determined shoppers out there already who have sized up exactly what they want in the January sales, have enough in Christmas vouchers coming in to pay for them and are poised to break out the deckchairs, duvets and camping stove ready to queue overnight to ensure they get in there first.
Harry Redknapp is at the head of the queue with his flask in hand and he wants Stewart Downing. He may be have to take back an unwanted Gareth Bale and Jamie O'Hara and get a credit note to put towards his big purchase but he is a determined and shrewd sales shopper and usually gets what he wants.
A year ago Boro's crown jewels were not for sale... but now? Well, things have changed. Now it is clear that they can be prised away providing the price-tag is met. And Stewie, long Boro's most potent creative force and important player, is the big shiny object of desire in the window, the one that will attract most attention.
We all know the financial background at Boro by now: the new credit crunch busting model of prudent housekeeping and youth development, the well publicised debt and how it is structured around Bulkhaul and Steve Gibson and the on-going wider downturn within the global economy and its steady encroachment into the previously insane bubble of bloated excess that is football.
Southgate has spent a week underlining that in flourescent marker. Press conferences have been dominated by an assertive analysis of the situation in which the Boro boss has made it clear at length that the January will be a belt-tightening one and that given the background it will be difficult to resist persistent suitors armed with ready cash.
The most obvious assets and most frequently coveted ones are are again being linked with moves away: Downing to Spurs for ã15m and/or players to the value; Tuncay has a fan in Big Phil (who himself has a sign of the times sell-before-you-buy limit on his wish list); Gary O'Neil is said to be wanted back at Pompey to fell the gap left by Real Madrid bound Lassana Diarra. And this time the rumours have been met not with unequivocal 'hands off' notices but with heavy signs of resignation that the phone hasn't rung... yet.
We are edging towards being a selling club, partly through design and partly through compelling economic pressure and Boro fans - those not already aware of the harsh reality anyway - are being softened up for the possibility of some shock departures.
Downing could well be one. He was a no-go area for other clubs a year ago. Steve Gibson fought to keep him last January and sanctioned a massive new deal then in the summer told Spurs, Liverpool and Aston Villa to get stuffed as they made approaches. Now that resolve appears to have changed, possibly along with Downing's own importance to the team and his own once prodigious productivity. Last season's top scorer has yet to get off the mark this term for instance.
One good game for England has put him back on the big club radar and some rare plaudits from the tabloid press (plus fears of football's money-go-round grinding to a halt) may well make some in his camp believe that it is now or never if he is to going to cash-in, move to London and team up with Woody in a weird and wonderful Men Behaving Badly mansion-sharing sitcom scenario.
Tuncay could be another. Yes he is a wonderful talent, a talismanic figure and the one player who can excite the Riverside and galvanise the team but he arrived for nothing and could represent a quick ã8m mark up. We could fight to keep him - we would all want him - but can you take the risk of player having his head turned by being denied Champions League glory? And next year he will be heading towards the last year of his deal and his value will dip rapidly.
We all know there are areas of the pitch where Boro are sorely lacking; take your pick... left back, centre-mid, wide right, a striker who can score one in three and terrorise defences. There comes a point when the urgency of those weaknesses become more demanding than the need to hold on to assets elsewhere. Just look at that goals against column! Just look at that table! Just look at the balance sheet!
Of course, it is not the end of the world. Well timed sales at a profit can help keep Boro - who have one of the lowest revenues in the Premiership - punching above their weight in the top flight - so long as the funds raised are wisely reinvested. There were eye brows and voices raised when Luke Young and Lee Cattermole were sold but most now see the potential in Justin Hoyte and Didier Digard, brought in at a net ã2m profit. If that becomes the norm then we can make progress and balance the books.
The long term aim is a squad of young, hungry players with a point to prove that can be brought in through the academy or timely purchases. The medium term aim is a team that can compete in the upper reaches of mid-table and make the odd foray into Europe. The short term aim is survival on and off the pitch, keeping the balls in the air and being solvent and playing in the Premiership.
**********************
MEANWHILE... typical Boro failed to build on the Arsenal display with a meek surrender at Fulham - "they wanted it more than us" - and the table is looking very tight behind us with a couple of very tough fixtures looming and injuries mounting. Merry Christmas. Ho, ho bloody ho.
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After reading Southgate's comments in the Gazette, he might as well have gone the whole hog and named price's for Downing, O'neill, Tuncay and anybody else who has a retail value.
If we get 15 mill for Downing and 5 mill for O'neill what will happen to the money? Will he buy another player who can better what we have sold? I cannot think of anybody who could fill Downings boots for what we will probably sell him for. Maybe he is intending buying another foreigner who has 'proved' his class in another country.
Will Downing end up at Anfield? O'neill at Pompey, I would hope that a lot of thought has passed before we cash in our chips on Downing because we could need him in April if we are in another relegation battle.
Downing is still useless and Southgate is still frightenengly inept (part 7,923) Never mid though, at least we are still 8th in the league. Oh, wait a minute!
If Harry Redknapp has 15 million in readies for our "Stewie" I will personally give him a tan on my bike and drop him off at the Lane.
In a two for one deal I will also drop off the Southern softie Gary O'Neill, to be reunited with his Mam at Fratton Park. As for MIDO, any one daft enough to buy him is welcome.
The Fulham game - bah humbug!
I suppose there will now follow an avalanche of criticism for the referee - "We were on top at the start of the second half and, if he hadn't given that penalty (that was never a penalty) which effectively ended the game, we could had been on the brink of getting back into it!"
If the referee had been doing his job properly we would have been 1-0 behind, down to 10 men, and with Arca lucky to be facing only a three match ban for violent conduct. The penalty wouldn't have come into it.
We were well beaten. Criticism directed at the referee would simply be a diversionary tactic. Still, there's the fun of Christmas to come....
Grove Hill Wallah, It looks like Downing may have to be sold to buy a left back as BOTH Fulhams goals from open play came from an lack of Boro left back.
Pantsil's cross for the first goal was good because he had no Boro left back putting any pressure on him as he took his time in acres of space.
And their other goal in open play well Dempsy drifted into the box from their right and with no left back anywhere to be seen shot and scored.
It could have been worse as Zonal marking left Andy Johnson in space and the usual back post headers are always available to our opposition as Zonal once again gives gaps for anyone wanting a free header.
You call Gary O'Neil a softie but you cant have seen him play as he and Digard are our best central midfield pairing when both fit.
It may have skipped your attention GH Wallah but we are having problems scoring and selling O'Neil who is our only goal scoring midfielder this season and a player who has had is hand in many of the few other goals we have managed to score is plain WRONG.
With no money to buy another striker or left back I would rather do some loans and keep our best players, what is the chance of fluking another Tuncay ? We won nowt the month he was out !
The team needs strengthening not weakening for gods sake. New players take time to bed in and even if they came in mid Jan [ never] then by the time they get up to speed we will be in deep doo doo.
Gate definetly missed a trick when you see Luke Young now doing a great job for Villa AT LEFT BACK!
Gareth if you are reading- Hoyte is capable of playing right wing with Mcmahon behind him - Assuming Downing is off and Jinky is going to go left that is.
Villa have only used 14 players all season and they are getting pretty consistent.
We however haven't had the same defence or midfield for than half an hour.
Cobblers !
ã15 million for Downing who is a player who has scored the mighty total of 0 this season. I'd sell him for that price any day. If we didn't have Johnson then I would think twice about selling Downing but in my opinion Johnson is more than capable of being our number 1 left midfielder.
I do rate Gary O'Niel however, he's been in good form this season and I do think that we would miss him. But, if we could buy someone that is a good replacement for him then I would sell him.
Jimmy Bullard springs to mind, a good set piece taker and gets alot of assists. Would benefit the likes of Alves. Bullard has been reported to be leaving Fulham in January but would he want to come to Boro? I'm not sure. Would many players that we would ideally want to see come to Boro? Again, I'm not sure.
But the players that we do buy in January need to have experience because the lack of experience is how we have lost in many games this season.
It seems to me we are going through a period of watering down the ability of our team. Releasing/selling all the proven players...and taking chances on the 100-1 shots/youngsters that the bigger teams did not feel were of the correct 'standard'.
The odd player may come good but the majority will not...so we cannot complain when we are taking our sledge ride to the bottom of the table after a remotely good start to the season.
All indications are that 2 or 3 of out best proven players will leave in january and be replaced by yet more 100-1 shots ...so we are looking at relegation.
We do not have a manager who can motivate the team or pick the correct tactics to win on a regular basis to beat similar quality teams.We do not have the team spirit of the newly promoted nor do we have the ability of the premiership regulars even those going through major troubles and rebuilding.
Gareth said judge him on this year....well if by the end of the season we are relegated and have a weak team full of young also rans does that mean he is going to walk or get pushed?
We are probably the only place in the premiership were he could shoot himself in the foot daily and still not lose his job. He has never proven he has the ability for the job and this year is looking like he will show exactly what he is ....a man totally out of his depth and the fans will pay for a bad business decision when things should have been looking up not down.
I do not even get upset or suprised anymore when we lose to the also rans of the premiership...i expect it! With regards to the Arsenal games and other big games were we have done well.....i honestly believe this is the team buzzing due to being on the big stage and has nothing to do with GS tactics or motivation.
Kneejerkism again. Boro are on a bit of a bad run. They have lost a game away to a team on a good run and with the best home record in the league. It is hardly an unprecedented and totally unpredictable disaster is it?
I used to think Boro fans were knowledgable, tolerant and realistic but with every year we are slipping towards Geordie style hysterical short-termism aand delusion. On that crazed other board they were demanding Gibson should go and some idiots wanted relegation to rebuild!!
We are an average team. We will finish mid-table.
When I refer to O'Neil as a softie it is because of his inability to settle in the North. Unsettled players will never play to 100% of their abilities.
Downing is a class act, but needs good players around him to fulfill his true potential (as demonstrated by Wayne Bridge) If he were to go he would owe Boro nothing.
Mido can rival Viduka and Boksic in the injury stakes and would be no loss.
With Hines and Grounds, Gareth is building a bench around Emnes that can go far.
So, who should we spend our January sales dosh on? You want a Left Back, how about Nicky Shorey? Aattacking Midfielder, Noel Hunt?
Another season in the Premiership is the goal for Boro this season. No mean feat considering our resources.
The reason Gary O,Neil supposedly wants to leave is purely down to the fact that his missus cant settle on Teesside. If we get our money back for him we will do well.
As for downing he wants to go because he thinks he is a big club player and if anyone offered over 10 million I would snap their hands off in fact he can take Mido and Alves with him.
We are on a downward spiral that will take some getting out of. Southgate is uninspiring and I think most of the players realise this, we are capitulating all to easily against mediocre teams we are predictable in the way we play and most teams sus us out early. Fulham could have had 6 if they had wanted yesterday.
Its going to be a long winter and I must admit I fear the worst, its like robbo has returned .I dont care who goes in January, in fact all these so called superstars can go for me. Give the kids a go at least they play with passion,if we are going to go down lets go down fighting....
I think it is common knowledge where the weaknesses are in the current boro squad, but for me, the most depressing area of the side is midfield.
If Mr Gareth Southgate cant see that the midfield is the week link in the side, then I am afraid it is time to find a new manager.
Yes we have to balance the books, but to continually defend and make out to the supporters that the midfield is hunky dory is becoming comical.
I think Digard will come good in time, O'Neil is best on the right wing, Stewy is class on the left, the rest just leave you feeling frustrated and not knowing wether to laugh or cry.
The opposition appear to be able to walk through our midfield at will, and the reason we cant score is because of a lack of creativity from the middle.
Why does Gareth persist with them, and worse than that,defend them?
Due to the economic situation it wouldnâÂÂt surprise me if the Boro management team drew up their transfer plans a few weeks ago when we were in a good position in the PL, identifying two or three âÂÂsaleable itemsâ to move out for a handsome profit. Desperate times need desperate measures.
I have posted recently that I feel we should reluctantly accept a ã12-15 Million offer for Stewy Downing, especially if we can bring in a good attacking left back as part of the deal. In one sense I would hate see him go but needs must. We hope and believe we have a ready replacement in Adam Johnson and it would give young Nathan Porritt the chance to be involved in the first team squad.
If OâÂÂNeil wants to leave then good riddance. DonâÂÂt keep any player who wants to leave, but drive a hard bargain and make a profit. That brings me round to another player touted to be leaving in January, Mido.
AV, I am surprised you didnâÂÂt mention Mido in your thread.
I was working with three Egyptian guys last year when we signed Mido. They all agreed that Mido is a âÂÂcrazy guyâ who only plays for himself and only thinks of himself. Looking at the number of clubs he has had in his relatively short career he obviously cannot settle at one club as he thinks he deserves better. If he wants to leave then let him leave. Again drive a hard bargain and at least break even.
Assuming we do lose Downing, OâÂÂNeil and Mido, then surely we cannot decimate the squad further by selling Tuncay. Selling the three quoted would have a big impact but selling Tuncay would put us in a very difficult situation.
The debate surrounding the virtues of certain individuals will go on, whether they stay or go. What concerns me is the basic approach of the Boro management right now, in terms of tactics and how we go about a game.
Call it blinkered, rose coloured, one sighted, but my honest belief is that we have a better team than Bolton, Hull, Newcastle and Fulham and if we performed to the best of our ability we could have taken at least eight points out of those games, maybe more. We gained one point out of twelve. Abysmal. Relegation form.
The only way we can play and gain points is to take the game to the opposition. We cannot play the cagey game. We have to have our full backs pushing on, our midfielders supporting the front one/two, we have to have movement up front. That is our game, full stop. We cannot defend well so what is the point of âÂÂdoing a McClarenâÂÂ?
Other teams in the PL seem to be able to get away with playing average, or even poorly, and come out of the game with a draw or a win. We do not have that in our make up. We have to perform well to get something out of the game yet in recent weeks we havenâÂÂt done so except for the Arsenal game. One point against Arsenal is valuable. One point against Fulham, Bolton or Hull would have been far more valuable as it prevents them from gaining three at our expense.
A big re-think is necessary, urgently.
AV: Some problems today trying to post to the thread and Boro Banter coming up with âÂÂWeb site busyâÂÂ
Your thread pre-empted my initial attempt to post. The language coming out of the Riverside smacks of getting ready for the sales, as you rightly state there are clear signs that we will be trading in on some of our assets. May not happen but it seems likely.
Downing leaving would be a blow but in reality he can put in dangerous cross after dangerous cross, deliver set piece after set piece and there is sod all chance of anyone getting on the end of them. In that case we may as well get as much as we can and strengthen other parts of the squad. But that is only one player, the loss of other key players would undermine the remainder of the squad and dismay the fans.
It reminds me of the situation under John Neal (I think) where we sold the family silver, sadly the replacements were pants and we eventually slipped into theâÂÂ86 closure. The club is much better run and that shouldnâÂÂt happen again but times are concerning.
The actions in the summer in releasing so many midfielders is not an issue, it was time for many of them to move on in both parties' interests. The problem was the incoming players or lack of them. Getting the run around by two 30+ midfielders at Fulham was a salutary lesson. ItâÂÂs that word again â lesson, we have had a plethora of lessons but sadly no matter the number of resits we never pass the exam.
Looking at posts, comments elsewhere and the media there appears to be a growing realisation amongst most that we are in for a tricky period. West Brom beating Citeh was a bonus but we have two tough games coming up and it is very tight down there.
We have been in similar situations before but if we have a poor return over Xmas and the mood inside the club is as downbeat as Gates pronouncements appear to make it then it looks difficult to see how the mood can be lifted especially if our best players depart.
Whatever anyone says about dodgy decisions on penalties we have not played well enough to deserve the points. We certainly cannot complain about ArcaâÂÂs yellow which could and should have been red. I posted that I feared undefeated in five could morph into no wins and it is six games so far.
Lets hope Santa brings us some luck on Boxing Day because sometimes that is all that is needed.
Watched the Fulham game on delay, I knew the score so I expected a battering however I really thought the general play was even for both teams, not a classic.
However, Turnbull screwed up on the first goal and didnt hold onto the ball; second ,penalty well we know what that was about, the crowd influenced the linesman ;and the third was when we were pushing forward.
The danger, however, is players trying to play as individuals and not keeping a shape. We are in desperate need for someone high upfront with strength enough to hold it up - how about bringing the Duke back on loan? Overall we have the bottle for a fight,and it sounds more like being resigned to relagetion coming from within
If Stewie's to go - and sadly, I think he will; his ambitions and quality can't and won't be matched at Boro. And if O'Neil is on the move back to the South coast and Mido too - yesterday's Gregg's fuelled disgrace must be his last in a Boro shirt - then if Boro drive a decent bargain for each of them (ã15m for Stewie, money back for the other two) that would bring net receipts of ã26m or so.
The issue then is how much of that goes on debt repayment and how much on players.
That ratio will determine whether Boro can finish in mid-table or whether we're in for yet another scrabble to see whether there'll be three worse teams at the end of the season. Either way it'll continue to be a roller coaster - that's Boro and that's this season.
AV's set of targets is right. A striker, a wide right midfielder, the long awaited creative midfielder and a left back.
The last of those becomes a bigger priority if Stewie goes. Johnno shows again and again that when he starts - and whichever wing he plays on - he's not Stewie so that flank has to be strengthened. So does the right side if we're not to continue to be so lop sided.
The 20 year olds who are coming from the Slovakian league won't do it. In fact, even with the bulk of the money spent on good quality buys - 'ones for now' not 'ones for the future' (which has to be the way) they'll struggle to settle and make an impression for a couple of months.
Meanwhile we've got two tough fixtures coming up with the team already suffering from transfer window selling team-itis and being Rockliffed and then a January with three six-pointers, an away trip to Cheski and a Barrow banana skin.
So, by the end of January we'll know what we're in for.
gt
I was there yesterday. There was no way the general play was even.
Fulham were what they are - an ordinary side that Hodgson has got organised. But they didn't need to be better than that to tonk a hopeless Boro. If it hadn't been for a few Rosco saves we'd have lost by more and it wouldn't have been unfair.
It wasn't just Rosco that screwed up on the first goal - the tumbleweed was blowing across the Boro penalty area with the defence playing statues.
Yes, the pen. was a travesty but the third was conceded not because Boro were pushing up but because they turned the drama over questioning the pen into a crisis by completely losing their heads. They were still in a complete tizzy when they gave Dempsey the freedom of the box.
In truth the game was pretty well up when Fulham got the first - it had been coming for ages. It was dead and gone on the hour.
You know how bad it was when ultra-loyalist and uber-cheerleader Gordon Cox on the official MFC website says:-
âÂÂHugely disappointingâÂÂ, âÂÂThe worst away performance of the seasonâ and accused Boro of âÂÂwhimpering to defeatâÂÂ.
All absolutely correct and fair.
I didn't mention Tuncay in my 6:33 above so as not to tempt fate even further. But if it was to happen then you can add another ã10m to the net receipts and another player to the list needed.
Posted at the fourth attempt after several error messages - just the usual that we've pointed to before. I'm using Navigator on an iMac with Mac X10.3.
Not nice to see that both sunderland and Newcastle sat above Boro in the league and no manager...mmmm. So we can't even do better than a rudderless ship + 2 points from the bottom 3 - Good job Gareth!
Sorry folks, I cant take any positives from yesterday match nor from the fact we have 3 points from 6 games.
That is poor, forget ref decisions, we deserved no more than a point from 3 the last three games. Thinking we deserved more is like the emperors clothes.
We are in a tricky situation and that is fact. Points aginst Everton and ManU will see a huge turnaround in the outlook, a couple of defeats will see us in the mire no matter the optimistic postings. The possibilty of us selling key players does not improve the prospects.
Well after listening to the match on saturday I won't be going to watch Boro this season. Sunderland and Newcastle are above us now. Think I could be tempted to go watch one of them teams. At least we get to see some goals scored.
Time is running out for Southgate and Gibson. We need a billionaire to buy the club otherwise after selling all out start players we will end up back in the lower leagues.
We should sack Southgate and bring in someone like Ince or Mowbray.
**AV writes: Trollwise, you were doing well until that last line. And the "we" in the first paragraph is a bit iffy as well.
I never thought I would ever say this but it is time to sell Stewie. I'm not too bothered about him having a flat spell because he will come through it but it is the rest of the team that worries me.
We are short in important areas now and if there is no money we can't just stay as we are and hope we have a good run or that West Ham or Wigan go belly up below us.
If there is no money available then Stewie going then it could give us a quick fix. I think we all accept he was going to go sooner or later, probably next summer. We need to bite the bullet and do it now.
We are desperate for a solid defence. Too many injuries, the kids aren't good enough to come in and we are shipping far too many goals, stupid goals at that.
We need a LB and a leader in the middle of the park to keep the MF tight and organised to protect the defence, especially late on. I like Digard but he hasn't got the experience to do that yet.
If we do sell Stewie it is CRUCIAL we spend the money well or we are on the slippery slope down.
my fourth and final attempt to post this
Boro at Fulham were total crap. to suggest 8, 10 or 12 million for some of our so called [STARS] is phony.... the whole squad would'nt bring in 4mil after that performance. The sooner they learn that good football is played on the ground and not in the air the sooner we will start to win again.
And why Emnes wasnt introduced in place of Arca is a mystery. For some reason they dont have any faith in him lasting more than 10 minutes
I honestly am disillusioned with our recent performances. Historically Steve Gibson took over the club when it was broke and we are now heading back to that situation. So for once he has to be tough and make up his mind exactly what to do about the situation.
The failings to me are most of the financial decisions that are made and unfortunately Southgate and his inexperience. So some hard decisions need to be made. Alves has been and is a failure, so overated. Downing missed penalties cost us points so it is time for very hard decisions, so come on Steve get a grip and prevent relegation. Please don't give up as easy as your team do on the pitch.
In the match at Fulham we gave up very early and our passing was like it has been all season, totally abysmal. The manager we needed was either Mowbray or O'Neill and the only signing which we should of gone for was Crouch although it would have to of been an exceptional wage for such a proven signing. With him in the middle Downings crosses would of been well used but the club as usual had not the imagination to try to tempt him.
Good to see the usual suspects panicking again! Tuncay scores his free header, Boro win 3-0, does everyone come to the same conclusions? Logically, they should as nothing much as changed bar an extra three points.
We haven't gone from being a good team to a bad team within a week - and we had no divine right to win at Fulham, who have one of the best home records in the division.
Truth is we are somewhere in between - i.e, pretty average. Which sums up most of the division.
Boro Phil
Good one week bad the next is not the current issue, 3 points from 6 matches is the problem, cant score and cant defend.
The captain coming out and saying not to sell our best players hints at some disquiet in the squad.
An outbreak of Typical Boro on Boxing Day is required.
We've just lost away to a team with one of the best home records in the league, next up are a team with one of the best away records in the league and then we're off to Old Trafford! It could be worse we could be Citeh or The Baggies!!
Still, no doubt we'll pull a rabbit out of the bag somewhere.
As for the transfer situation, I've thought for a while that this will be Stewie's last season at Boro, ideally I'd like to see him stay until the Summer, but if we're offered ã15 million in January then there would be little choice but to say yes, we have jinky champing at the bit, so all is not lost.
However loosing Stewie, Tuncay and O'Neil in January seems unlikely and certainly would be foolhardy. I can see one going in January but not three.
Having witnessed the diabolical performance on Saturday - and with over 35 years of watching the Boro - this team is simply not good enough and will do well do survive this season.
We have no forward play and we do not scare teams at all - Ian Wright commented on Five Live that Boro do not have any players that scare the opposition, we do not have a presence. I do rate Huth and Digard very highly, especially Digard - he is a great player who will play at the very highest level one day, if he fulfils his potential.
As for GS - I wanted him to succeed as Boro manager but I cannot understand some of his decision making in players selection and tactics (or lack of the ability to be able to change a game) Arca is not a central midfielder - he gives the ball away too cheaply - is not the best tackler and does not do box to box. Our midfield was none existent on Saturday and Bullard and Murphy had so much room we made them look like Real Madrid and the way they took the mick stringing togethet 12-15 passes was an embarressment.
At the end of the game the whole Boro contingent (2,000 I guess) did not clap the players off and the fans more or less turned their backs on their team and left for the exits, quite a strong message to suggest something has to be done quickly before the fans head for the exist in droves and do not return for good.
For the record, unfortunately, I will not be travelling away again this season solely because the hundred odd pounds it cost me and my son to go is simply not value for money and on that performance MFC should re-imburse the admission money for damaged goods.
After spending over an one hour on a piece I tried to Preview it and was told the Website was to busy to show this page and then wiped off my comments totally what is going on?.
**AV writes: users of the site are having some unexplained difficulties. It has been suggested the IE browsers are at the root of the problem. Switching to Firefox or Opera could be a solution or updating the latest IE security patches from Microsoft may help. We are working on it from our end too.
Beamish , your cover is so blown on here mate- You are not a Boro fan .Goodbye
Stockton Red:
The one element you're missing in your scenario is that money raised will be used, first and foremost, to service debt or pay off creditors, or to fund small increases in wage demands for developing youngsters.
I suspect the realities of the credit crunch are biting and have accelerated Boro's inevitable transition to a "selling" club - as people are describing it. In a Premier League which is a group of businesses, NOT fotball clubs, the priorities of owners and CEOs are NOT the same as those of supporters.
In times of "plenty", i.e. when credit was freely available and money supplies were seemingly endless, it wasn't so much of an issue and with some additional risk, the likes of Boro could just about compete.
The issue now is that the bubble has burst and there's a redistribution of wealth, of risk and of playing talent going on. Where it all will shake out remains to be seen, but one thing's for sure, Steve Gibson is, first and foremost, a businessman - not a supporter - and therefore his priorities will be in protecting his corporate empire. If that is at the expense of footballing achievement and the level at which we can compete, then that will be the price we, the supporters, will have to pay.
It appears from the pronouncements of recent weeks, we are being psychologically prepared for the realities of it.
AV
What game was Eric Paylor at on Saturday? Come to think of it, what game was Gate at if the article by Eric about Mido is to be believed?
After coming on at half time he had about 10 minutes of headless chicken 'putting himself about' to nil effect. After that he barely won a header or a challenge and didn't have a single strike on goal in forty-five minutes. The few lay offs he tried went astray.
He is clearly out of condition - and more than down to not playing for too long; another bash at Gregg's Cairo branch? Long before the end he'd not only given up ostentatiously but then he even gave up giving up.
The attitude is as flabby and misguided as his fitness regime! And it has been all of this season apart from a cameo against West Ham.
There were very few positive points on Saturday and he wasn't one of them.
I would be pleased if he never played for Boro again and got his oft-stated wish to leave as soon as the window opens. If he's what we're relying on Boro are in a worse state that many fear because Mido wouldn't be the only thing that was flabby and misguided.
If we sold Stewy for ã15M, Tuncay ã12M, Mido ã6M, GON ã5M, Huth ã5M that would bring in ã43M (just under 1/2 our debts). Problem as mentioned above is how much of that would go to clearing debts and how much for rebuilding?
Bearing in mind the financial crisis (which has been exacerbated by Gareth's comments last week which was tantamount to putting a "For Sale" sign on the 1st team bus) say 40% (just over ã17m) is re-invested as spending money. We could switch Jinky for Stewy, Emnes for GON wide right and Ali for Mido. Central Defence probably Bates for Huth which then leaves us with a Left Back, a Striker for Tuncay and a creative Midfielder to find, three players for around ã5 to ã6M each.
Who on the Boro Blue cross "For Sale" list is going to give their all from now until January (most people I know wind down during their last few weeks of working their notice)? Conversely then who would want to come to a side in or verging on the bottom 3 come January?
Gareth now has the biggest challenge of his career......how to motivate, instill confidence, inspire mediocrity to superlative levels (as oppose to laxative levels). Solving the problem of Alves is paramount to it all. That one huge gamble is now reaching breaking point, 10 goals from him this season to date would have seen us in the top 7 or 8 comfortably and looking upwards. The reality now is only too obvious, lets hope Gareth can rise to the challenge.
The constant Zonal marking, influencing Officials, chronicles of Crockliffe, etc are slowly leading to our demise. Something has to change and very quickly because a change is as good as a rest as Allardyce, Redknapp, Sbragia, have all shown!
Well the Matics and the other slovak deals are off! We cannot afford 2 million for matics or 900,000 for the other guy soooo...thats that.
I can just see the Boro scouts visiting the Sunday league side for the 'young potential' becouse what else can we afford if we struggle with 3 million for 2 players? So watch the local rec near you ...maybe you will see a familiar face.
Is it only me, but everytime I have seen Emnes this season (only 5 minutes at a time), or watched him in the reserves on Boro World he looks very very tasty.
Why did we spend $3M on a player who is fast, two footed and appears to have a bit of physical presence for a small feller and we don't give him a game.
I would give Emnes a start in front of Johnson, Arca and maybe even Alliadiere.
I reckon Gary OâÂÂNiel is leaving, and if you believe the rumours that could well be the reason heâÂÂs not playing as heâÂÂs put a transfer request in. Get our money back for him and then move Mido on, (probably to Wigan to replace Heskey) and then IâÂÂd go and get Doyle and Harper from Reading. Reading may be tempted to try to hang on to them with them pushing for promotion but everyone has a price.
ItâÂÂs a poor showing if weâÂÂve pulled out of the Matic deal, he looks promising but maybe itâÂÂs a sign that the club realise we need a couple of players for now, not 18months down the line.
To be honest, its unrealistic for us to be punching above our weight, in football and commercial terms. If the debts are as bad as is being portrayed we have to sell some players. Maybe we all need to realise that.
Obviously theres a consequence. But why would life in the Championship be so bad? The books might balance, the football would be no less entertaining (we may even win sometimes....) and the flakes who never followed the Boro before the Robbo era would disappear.
My best days as Boro fan were when we were among the best-of-the-rest. Creating havoc in the old second and third divisions mixed with David versus Goliath games in Cups. Us being David obviously. Underdogs - fits the Boro psyche. Being whipping boys to the elite is not our style. I agree with the Gibson conspiracy theory that we should go back to where we belong and enjoy it!
Here we go again, after another terrible defeat. Lets face it, the penalty didnt really make a difference, we were never in the game! We didnt deserve anything, and if we played an extra 90 minutes, we still wouldnt have scored!
And i dont know if its just me, but we seem to be less of an attacking threat without Afonso. Aliadiere cant cut it upfront with Tunny just behind him, it doesnt make sense! yes he has pace, but he doesnt have the natural strikers instinct. He doesnt make the runs that Alves/Mido (when he's fit) does!
I would personally put Aliadiere back on the right, where he looked more effective, put Alves and Mido upfront, with Tuncay behind them, but, southgate seems to be too scared to go for that much of an attacking line up!
As for transfers are concerned, like it or not, Downing isnt a bad player, but, Jonno is better so if you can get ã15m for Downing, you would have to take that, then play Johnson on the left, Aliadiere keep on the right.
As for Mido, to me it seems he obviously doesn't want to play for us. In 2 seasons he has played in about 20 games for us, if that! Thats not good enough, so personally, to get ã5 for him would be good.
As for Gary, then if he isnt settled, let him go! Digard in the centre is more effective, but its who can play along side him. My point of view is that Arca isnt good enough to be in the starting side, so that would mean we need a new player in the window, and with that ã20m we could have earned, go get someone! Even Appiah for free, why we havent already snapped him up, i have no idea!!
Anyway, enough of my rant. Let's beat Everton boxing day!!
God the premiership is turning into WWF. That is three times a team could have pushed on and have not and three times all the top teams have had a stalemate.
Referees have been deciding games. And are we now in a period of the premiership sponsored by Man u? Not just that but the way it is all working out nobody apart from the top five is safe. Is this all a con? Please tell me another season like this and I bet by 20th Jan man u are top.....
Arca's tackle should have resulted in a straight red card and Southgate should discipline him after watching video evidence. How Arca did not break the Fulham players leg I will never know. Any ex professional player or for that matter any top amateur will tell you that the stiff leg stamped into the shin of an opponent will usually cause a severe breakage, and could be career threatening.
I had personal experience of such an incident when an uncle was crippled by just such a tackle when on the brink of a professional career, he spent many years as a cripple in agony before eventually having the leg amputated, so I am angry that this sort of tackle went unpunished in this instance. I never believed Arca to be this sort of player but he proved me wrong.
As for the Fulham game we were outplayed in the midfield mainly, and missed our new star Digard, and the sooner he gets fit the better. Aliadiere will never ever be a lone striker as he can not hold the ball in the Viduca fashion to allow team mate to get in to attacking positions, he is more the old style inside forward coming from behind to use his undoubted speed to play a one two with the point man.
I also think Emmes must be given a start as he looks to be a more than good player in his cameo performances. Make no mistake we are now in a relegation battle now that Sunderland and Newcastle have gone above us in the league.
Stevo
You really preferred the old division 2 & 3 to the Prem, Cup Finals, winning the Carling Cup, the UEFA Cup Final, qualifying for Europe etc?
This is the golden age - and I speak as someone with nearly fifty years of Boro watching under my belt.
The problem with the 'give up and let it happen' mentality is that the Championship may not be the end of it.
I don't need to list all of the examples - folks know them well enough. Southampton and Norwich amongst others are looking to add the that roll of dishonour this year.
Ask their fans and Boro's if they'd want the teams to swap places. I think the damage caused would be just as much to the town and the area as to Boro.
The other thing is that, if the resources at the club now were being marshalled as they could be Boro would be comfortably mid-table with a decent punt at a cup.
We're an average-ish side with some better than average elements in a decidedly average league but too often we end up delivering below average on the field.
We know we've got a few better than average elements ourselves but the confirmation comes in the demand for some of our players from other Prem clubs.
The problem is that, for whatever reason, we're not getting the best from what we've got; hell, we're not even getting a steady average from what we've got.
We get the occasional peak but mostly trough.
I think that some of the problem comes with a 'small town' mentality that pervades too much of the attitudes in and around the club. I'm not talking about getting overblown ideas about ourselves - like some other clubs not far away that I could mention - just realising what is possible and delivering on it.
As we approach half way the report card reads 'can do better - and should'.
John P, I wonder if the players hearts are fully in it.
The fact that we rarely score more than 1 goal a game so when Fulham or whoever we are playing scores 2 then the writings on the wall and its game over.
Pogger has come out and said he was worried about the sale of Tuncay and Downing and I agree with him they represent our main attacking threat with Mido injured constantly.
Pogger also mentioned on Sky sports that a lot of players have gone and a few young lads have been brought in and not the right replacements.
Apart from Dong gook there is not one player that Southgate has got rid of that we didnt need against Fulham and in every match we have played - Viduka , Yakubu, Luke Young, Boateng, Cattermole, Rochemback, Woodgate and on and on.
So now we are gonna sell Downing who could have our leading assists tally if we had gone for Crouch instead of Alves. Or the inspirational Tuncay or O'neil who is our best central midfielder alongside Digard.
I understand why heads are dropping, we cant afford to be in the prem and that together with constant injuries to our best players and then the ref helping out too.
Its like last season all over again but with a weaker squad.
I took time to watch Everton v Chelsea to see if Chelsea could wear the toffees out for us and it was full on so we may have a chance on boxing day if some of our injured players return . By the way , here is Chelsea's bench... Drogba, Bridge, Cudicini, Malouda, Kalou, Belletti. Coincidentally they seem to be the players to fix our squad weakness.
Dear Santa.......
I agree with you AV that it seems Southgate has issued several "come and get me" statements on behalf of some of our more valuable assets (sorry players).
He also seems to be softening up the supporters for the departure of Downing.
ã15m would seem to be his maximum possible value given today's economic circumstances - plus he's only one bad game for England away from major devaluation - so the time is right for the Real Jinky to take over the left-wing mantle - so go for it, especially if we can get Bale as part of the deal and perhaps Huddlestone could also be thrown in.
Also the noises coming out of Boro seems to indicate that the O'Neil family is looking to migrate south for the winter - hopefully we'll get our money back.
As many have also said on this blog Mido is poor value and doesn't look like he'll fit in anywhere which doesn't bow to his greatness on a daily basis - so hopefully we'll get our money back.
As for Alves, well we need to stick with him and hope he rediscovers his mojo as at the moment we haven't a hope in hell of getting our money back.
It also seems squad-wise we have too many central defenders in relation to central midfielders - Perhaps the never-present Huth should be moved on - so hopefully we'll get our money back as I've heard that Spurs are partial to injury-prone centre-backs.
I wouldn't contemplate any offers for Tuncay though - remember how bad we played without him?
I also agree with others who think it's time for Emnes to get a run in the team on the right - after all it's the reason we bought him!
Finally, what should we do about nice bloke Southgate? Well many have said it's time for him to go and replace him with an experienced manager - but he's probably the right man for a club which is looking to have a young team that has players who need their confidence nurtured.
Besides, the Premiership will be pretty much a closed-shop once Man City and Spurs get their act together and join the Big 4 and Villa - though being in the Premiership is still far better than watching Boro in Stevo's festive Sherry-tinted championship glasses.
I notice that the Gazette are doing a Survey for the half way point of the season and want "your views". I don't think many of my views on this season are publishable!
I've said it before, but it bears repeating. I don't mind us losing games, I don't mind drawing. But what I do mind is when we do it with no effort, no heart, no desire. And I especially hate it when we then come out and say "we should have done better".
Twice now Pog has come out after the match and said words to the effect of "we were poor" and recently that he didn't think we would get anything from the game. HELLO! You're the captain! Where has MAD DOG gone? I wouldn't mind the odd sending off if he brought him back now and again!
Pog should have been out there completely red in the face kicking everyone up their
collective lazy backsides if he felt we weren't up to it. Otherwise, what's the point? The team is full of young lads, they needed someone to tell them to blumming well get stuck in. But instead we float about, lose 3-0 and then spend the rest of the week wondering what went wrong?
The depressing thing is the same constant issues for 2,3,4 years in a row...
1. No consistency
2. Weak performances against similar standard and below-standard teams.
3. Inability to score more than twice
4. Inability to keep clean sheets
5. Post-match comments
GS has slowly and surely morphed into McClaren-lite. At least McClaren had the bare faced cheek to smile after a humiliating defeat as he delivered his post-match nonsense. GS just stands there with that soul-searching look talking about "lessons" a lot.
Maybe the problem is that the club is just too nice? We should hire Roy Keane for one day and send him to kick some backsides round the training pitch - see if he can get a reaction.
An average club full of average players with average ambitions and in an average position in the league.
Stop moaning Boro fans coz you are achieving expectations by doing "average" as a whole.
C'mon Rovers!...Incey gone thank god coz he's the pitts and a new look Rovers after the transfer window.
Rovers til' I die!
John Powls
The Carling Cup and UEFA fluke run were indeed highly enjoyable but 2 things to consider:
1) They occured in the McLarenist Doom-Football era. We need to remember just how BAD most of the football Boro played was.
2) We were jammy. Likelyhood of a repeat in our lifetimes? Nil.
Everytime Boro lose im gutted. If we go down Ill be gutted. If we then find our level and balance the books such that the club does not have the gates locked (again) then I'll be a happy Boro fan. Able to watch a game and enjoy it again rather than cringe.
Agree, though that lowering our sights so we can survive finantially could spell footballing freefall if its not managed correctly - but how many options to we have?
It wouldn't surprise me if Alves is sold back to the Dutch league. Was it AZ Alkmaar who wanted to buy him? They are now top of their league now, so they could still be interested.
He's a long way down the pecking order for us here.
Stevo
I am no fan of The Ex or his style of football either .
But you can't argue with what was achieved and I, for one, will always be grateful for that.
Jammy or not, the record books don't lie - just as the league table doesn't. There are doubtless many other examples where that judgment could be applied to other winning teams, especially in a Cup competition, but why would a Boro supporter like you want to do so with Boro's successes?
The biggest problem I have with The Ex's era is that when it finished I was hopeful that it would set the launch pad for further success and not that it would be the pinnacle of Boro's achievement as you predict.
I think there were good chances of that but Gibbo made different decisions and we are where we are.
Aside from the potential for freefall if we go down you seem to believe that there is some sort of footballing quality Nirvana in the Championship or below.
There's just as much dross there as in the Prem and just as few teams with a real shout of going up. Mid-table mediocrity is much, much better in the Prem than the Championship.
The money coming into the club from all sources is lower in lower leagues too whilst many of the fixed costs will stay the same - so freefall through lack of resource and the risk of the gates being locked are greater the further you drop.
Even in the bad old days it's no co-incidence that both times we've got close to that it's been at the time we were at our lowest football ebb too.
That's what's threatening the likes of Southampton and Norwich now and it's why Reading are desperate - like all clubs who have taken the drop - to get back at the first attempt.
It is the club closest to where I live and, though they could scarcely be doing much better this season, crowds are radically down on last season, albeit a relegation one from the Prem. And they don't have so great an economic pressure on their catchment area as Boro do.
I know their supporters have genuine concerns for what might happen if they get stuck in the Championship for any length of time.
The whole football industry is shrinking - outside of a couple of loony tunes examples that we all know about. By and large, that's a good thing. Most of the Prem will be suffering to varying degrees from the same financial stresses that are on MFC and Boro but their circumstances will be different as single person/business ownership is rare in the top flight.
The trick (or the alternative, as you call it) is to manage the retrenchment better than all or most of the rest. I'm sure that's what Gibbo, The Count and Gate are trying to do. Whether they are doing the right things or things in the right way - only time will tell.
My beef is that, without getting silly and going on about Europe as some people, including players, do when we get a result, with what we've currently got - and in this season above all - we could and should be better placed than we are now.
Sell ALL our best players? Going down? Have a word. There is too much panic on here. This Boro side is frustrating and very average but it isn't a relegation side - and I;ve seen plenty of them.
There is too much quality going forward and with a fullt fit first XI we are strong at the back as well. We lack a bit of creativity and the nouse to be patient when pressing or keep it tight when under pressure. They are not fatal flaws.
Look at the rest of the division. They are dross. We will have a run at some point and go back top half then slide back back again before a late rally to finish 13th.
Do any of you bedwetters Slavanistas REALLY think Boro are going down? Or is all this doom-mongering just a bit of a hobby?
Europe has got two sides to it. Players should stop raising the expectations of the fans. We have now been told from above there is no money , the squad is not strong enough to get there even though we have some good players.
Can you imagine if we were in Europe or get there next year? We dont play a quarter of the games now and we are totally inconsistent.
No money, low gates and small squad so all parties stop talking about Europe and lets talk about winning the next game only.
Ok i personally think we will go down this year...if not this then next. We are not motivated enough to make a mediocre squad perform.
I enjoyed the cup runs of a few years ago and enjoyed the spotlight for our '15 minutes of fame'. I understand the economics of today and the fact that Boro will never be a big side. What upsets me most is when Gibson was on foam hands fumes he promised a world class manager and a team to be proud of. I have not seen him honour either of these statements.
Southgate is a nice bloke but not a premiership manager. We are in a Venables situation and we need it quick. If you look at our fixture run in we need to be safe a lot quicker than past years. The last volley of games will be the hardest.
Not a Mclaren fan but at least we got something from his time here....will it be the same for Southgate? I doubt it.
I must apologize to Arca for my assessment of his tackle the player obviously knew he had committed a very serious foul and apologized for this to Johnson. Good on the man for admitting his mistake. I am pleased he did this and my admiration for his great skills are restored.
Now for Everton... how about playing Wheater as a point man? He was a converted centre forward in his early days and he certainly looks like he knows how to score goals, I bet he would revel in the situation. We need a big fella up front as we are brushed aside too easily of late particularly our ã12.7m striker.
Our football is equal to the top teams but when you consider our goal difference we only have three teams worse off than we are in this respect. A crunch match against Everton I hope we have all player fit and firing.
Win a few and its Europe, lose a few and we're heading towards oblivion. Some here need to get a grip.
The club has been building an unhealthy level of debt for years and this cant continue. Crowds have dwindled and investment in 'big names' hasn't bought much tangible success. The club has to pay bigger wages to get players because many simply do not want to live in an area with our image. This in turn drains resources quicker than other similar size clubs.
The reality is that given our size, crowds, image and wealth we do well to survive in the Prem. Our first 11 is good enough but a couple of injuries, especially in the middle spells real problems. Gates dream of open attacking football depends on key individuals being fit; if not we struggle.
All of this wailing and gnashing of teeth is pointless. Gate knows better than we do the shortfalls but to a point, his hands are tied. Some of his buys have been poor, others good. There is not that much quality in this league and everyone will continue to beat each other.
The real sickener others have highlighted is when we dont fight and scrap as a team. As fans, thats the minimum requirement. Bolton are a fine example of rolling up your sleeves as are Hull.
For the first time in years, I really fear for us this season. Football wise, I like what Gate is trying to do and this team has raw potential which is exciting. The lack of depth in the squad, relative inexperience and brittle confidence tell me that this season is a real landmark one in the history of the club.
Why does everyone go through this every year saying we going down after a bad run? Not one person Ive spoken too (and I live in South Africa, we follow the premiership very very well) has said boro are a shoe in for relegation. Never, even last year after we hadnt won for 10 games before we beat Arsenal.
The other day I was reading a blog on the BBC about managers, after Keane quit, and they were saying that good players dont make good managers, but then everyone would mention Gareth Southgate as an arguement against that. These were Man Utd, Liverpool, Sunderland, you name them supporters, clearly he's not as bad as some of the Boro fans make him out to be.
Wake up and put things into perspective, we are an average side in general however we are the average side that with a bit of effort can achieve a little more. The reason we are seen as the most unpredictable is because while we never been a top side nor a relegation side, we can outplay teams one week and crash and burn the next.
This is not a problem that's just been with Southgate, its been with all our managers. Its not from the same players either, what does that leave you? who has always been there? the fans. the only common factor is the fans. Does this indicate that its actually the fans who have been the reason for our unpredictable results? You be the judge.
This is a message to Steve Gibson!
If you want to take ã10-15 million for a single player pal you do it! You have done more for this football club than anyone else In Its history! We all appreciate wot you have done mate. You do what Is best for you and MFC! xxx