Wenger Boys Gunned Down
THE MEDIA consensus was that relegation bound Boro were going to get battered by an imperious Arsenal who wouldn't be muscled out of victory in the far North a second time in a week. But what do they know? The real cognescenti were the ones waving their betting slips at the end, the few Riverside regulars who threw the compelling logic aside and gambled on Boro's historic perversity.
Boro to win... 11-2; Boro to win 2-1... 25-1; Downing first scorer and Boro to win 2-1... 225-1. Result. And everyone who put their money where my doubt was deserves the kudos that goes with queuing at the payout window. I was sat with a coupon that had a quid on Boro to win 3-0 at 100-1 in my pocket at the insistence of my wife. How we laughed. No chance I sneered. It was more ritual dance than conviction. Yet after the second went in she never stopped texting with a mixture of gloating at facing down the form book to call it right and anxiety that they had eased up and were showboating. Stop fannying about and get the ball forward - there's money riding on this!
In hindsight Boro's win was almost inevitable. The visitors on an unstoppable run, unbeaten all season, top of the table, Champions elect and with a history of banging four, five, six, seven past us; Boro struggling to score, without a win in three months and an alarming tendency to fold under pressure... what else was going to happen? Boro are coupon busting run breakers.
There was an echo of Steve McClaren's last season when with the fans in revolt the team had hit rock bottom with a spineless collapse at the Riverside to Aston Villa that had prompted the watershed Red Book throwing incident. Next home Boro ripped apart champions and table-toppers Chelsea then lumbered onto a run that was to end with the gloriously chaotic surge to the FA Cup semi-final and Eindhoven. Not that I'm saying for second that people should book hotels in Wembley for the second weekend in May, but, hey, this is Boro we're talking about. So get your daft quid on them losing at Derby next week. Some observations:
Boro Braveheart Starting To Deliver: What a difference a goal makes. Tuncay has the ability, the passion, the workrate and the touch of magic to play his way into Boro's heart. The Riverside is crying out for an heroic figure with the heart, zest and trickery to at least go some way to being a Juninho substitute.
The former Fenerbahce semi-divine dream weaver has had a tough start but has shown in glimpses - at West Ham, at Old Trafford - that he has the potential but against Arsenal he was magnificent: he chased, he squeezed, he tackled back, he crossed, he passed, he dribbled and tricked and turned in areas that hurt Arsenal .... and he scored. Hot on the heels of a crucial goal at Reading he showed an alertness and hunger in the box to drill home another which in terms of this season makes him practically a goal machine.
And he enjoyed it too, lapping up the adulation of the crowd after his goal and on his exit from the pitch having ran himself into the ground. He ticks a lot of boxes and if he can keep that kind of display up then he can be the galavanising presence that transforms the season in the way Carlos Tevez did at West Ham after a sticky start last year.
Teesside Steel: Boro showed the whole package against Arsenal and hinted at what was possible with a full strength team that is highly motivated and well organised. They showed pride and passion and a real bite combined with some exquisite moments of devastating skill that ripped apart a very good side.
They got into Arsenal's faces early and made the game scrappy, forced the table-toppers to compete on Boro's terms and then having earned the right to play took advantage with some incisive movement that made Arsenal look ordinary. For long spells they bossed the game, there were a string of excellent individual performances - Tuncay, Aliadiere, Downing, O'Neil, Boateng and Woodgate - contributed to an inspirational team display. In truth Boro could have won far more convincingly.
The national press will dismiss the result as a blip by a 'lacklustre' Arsenal team having a bad day at the office but it was far from that. It was a thoroughly professional display by a well drilled Boro side that set the agenda and more than matched one of the best teams in Europe on every level. We out-thought and out-fought them and it was brilliant to watch.
Crowd Pleasing: The Riverside atmosphere was the best of the season and showed a renewed sense of unity between crowd and team, a rejuvenated resolve that suggests that not only are we all in this together but that we are all determined to get out of it.
Of course, the early goal helped - in the symbiotic relationship between atmosphere and display, it is the lads on the pitch who most convincingly set the tone - but you could sense walking up to the ground that the bitterness and dischord of the Villa game was gone to replaced by a new determination.
Once Boro were ahead the crowd grew in confidence and delivered what is needed: a non-stop vocal expression of undiminshed support for not only the team but for those individuals who have taken some stick in recent weeks. Stewy Downing, barracked to the point of distraction in recent games, had everyone back on side and chanting his name with an awesome display. Tuncay, dogged by Turkish tittle-tattle that he is disillusioned on Teesside, was visibly buoyed by the reaction to his goal. Fit again Julio Arca and Robert Huth returned to rapturous applause.
And most pleasing of all, the underfire boss who polls suggesting 70-80% of the Teesside public wanted sacked a fortnight ago got to revel in a genuinely supportive atmosphere in which he got a warm namecheck and even responded happily to Bruciesque requests to "give us a wave" and did so validated but without any hint of bitterness.
You Don't See That Often Do You?: When was the last time you laughed because the ref seemed to give everything Boro's way? I can't remember an accumulation of little decisions so blatantly facouring us since Cardiff. I am not legally allowed to suggest that Howard Webb was 'a homer' but it must be pointed out that when Arsenal fans started to chant "1-0 to the referee" I was tempted to join in.
It started with the penalty which in real time and from his angle must have been a difficult 50/50 call and on a bad day could easily have been waved away. Then followed a string of bizarre decisions as Boro were given goalkicks that should have been corners, throw-ins going the wrong way and crunching tackles and niggly trips going unpunished while Arsenal seemed to be pulled up for almost identical challenges.
Not that I'm complaining. And it wasn't all one sided as if you wanted to be churlish you could ask why Eboue wasn't at least booked for his slap across the chops of Pogatetz (although to be fair the ref was probably gobsmacked at the transparency of the Alpine hardman's pathetic face-clutching theatrics) and how the hell he escaped a red in the second half when he left his foot in the air after a clearance then raked his studs down Stewy's ribs.
And when was the last time we saw Boro taking the mick out of the table-toppers with "ole" ringing around the stadium at the sequences of passes and touches and back-heels as the team gleefully stroked it about nonchalently to the amusement of the crowd. I can't remember.
**Apologies to anyone who has had problems calling up, reading or posting on the blog over the weekend. There was a technical glitch that meant new postings weren't visible to many people, including me. It was, as our geeks explained "knacked." Normal service is now resumed.
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Anthony Vickers
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Is'nt it great when you expect a flogging, to see the lads put in an effort like that?.If only they would do it week in and week out.
Trouble is next week we expect to dish out a flogging,.... oh lets not go there.
We must keep Turnbull between the sticks he has given the defence new confidence in themselves let alone doing a good job, and he can only get better with a long run in the side.
AV - I was about to suggest you would have to rename your blog by removing the 'un' from the title; and then Boro pull that performance out of nowhere! Back to our untypical selves and loving it!
AV
Asset stripping or no Asset strippping. That was excellent. Commitment, passion and what a celebration for Tuncay's goal!!
Now keep the run going (one defeat in five) at Derby
Anthony, what is the deal with Woody being taken off yesterday? The poor kid looked almost in tears. Would really appreciate your professional opinion on the matter
Fantastic result and even though it has been done in the past I really did not see that coming on Sunday!
So much so that I was not too concerned when I handed my season ticket to a mate's dad because I was double booked to be godparent at my nephew's christening! You can thank Setanta Sports for that!
Anyway I appear to be a 'jinx' and my friends and family are wanting my season ticket taken away! Note to landlady at The Wynyard in Billingham get Setanta Sports for Xmas! It was bad enough not going, but even worse when it was not on their TV too!
Anyway great to see more Turkish Delight from Tuncay and he could be our salvation afterall.
A great performance and result.
A post by myself from midweek, I am not posting this because it is clever but a reflection of what TB says about the bleeding obvious. It has been the way to beat the Gunners for a few years.
'The coming game against the gunners will tell us a lot. Wenger is a great believer in teams playing 442 and if they dont do so and attack with gusto they are committing a crime against football.
Translating this into English is as follows. Arsene Whinger plays 451, he wants you to play a midfield four so his exceptional players can outnumber you and pass you to death, midfield players running at your defenders with their sublime skills.
The solution is to match them in numbers and make sure you press and make their lives uncomfortable. Nine times out of ten they will still batter you, most of the rest of the time they will still win. But every now and then...
A test for Gate, Aliadiere up front, Tuncay floating in a five man midfield linking across the pitch, joining up with Aliadiere, giving movement to keep Arsenal busy.'
Tuncay should have been playing in the floating role against Villa and Reading before Downing and DGL.
I was overjoyed watching the Match especially as we had a hoodoo friend round for nibbles and the odd shandy. We could have won by more and Eboue showed his combustability.
Later in the week I also posted
'He (lawro) is right in that we will have to hassle and chase, the last thing we want to do is get into a beauty contest with the Gunners. Play good football by all means but it is essential to make their lives a misery. But why am I saying this? We should be doing it in every match.
After the weekend I think we may some daylight between the bottom three and the rest, sadly I fear we will be the wrong side of it.'
So the last part there was mercifully wrong, the first part accurate. And there is the trick for Gate to master, we should be hassling every team.
Arsenal are one of the quickest and fittest teams around, they have outstanding athletes and we EARNED the right to play some excellant football.
We should work just as hard at Derby this Saturday and then we will earn the right to play our football.
None of this is me being clever we have been posting about these issues for some time.
I had the same thought jc â that was so typical of Boro!
You canâÂÂt fault anyone from the coaching staff to the players â it was an excellent performance all round. Hopefully we can continue and build on this performance â playing as a team where everybody understands their role and concentrates for 90 minutes.
It just goes to show that everybody at the club is capable getting it right if they put their mind to it â maybe itâÂÂs the increased competition for places with players returning from injury, Turnbull looking to take his chance and Johnson available on the bench.
Ian â hopefully you can keep your friend âÂÂformerly known as Hoodooâ in nibbles for the rest of the season.
I'm going to revel in this result all week!
The team was excellent, Tuncay was outstanding, his determination and commitment is something to behold. GS can't leave him out now.
I posted on the previos thread we will win and we did. The omens were all there! Sadly my bet was 2-0 Aliadiere andd Tuncay to score, so I've still got the mortgage to pay.
But right now I don't give a damn about that, this is a
moment to savour we can analyse where we need to go from here later.
I watched MOTD2 twice last night , fantastic!
And I'll say it again Tuncay was outstanding
Please can we have a re-run of "knockers comments" inc.Gibson out,Southgate out,Sell
Downing,etc,etc...Strange how quiet the "experts" are after that match.....Is it co-incidence that we had a few more senior players fit....
A word on the....people (can't really find a description to fit) who shout for Steve Gibson to sell/leave - without him (and carrying the ã13m loss) there would be no Boro as we know it, and we would deserve it.
Why can't all these ex-pro footballers/managers, experts(my a..se) most of whom , I guess, have never kicked a football in anger, apart from Redcar beach, give a bit of SUPPORT when we need it instead of knocking/booing which helps nobody,and it's worse for young lads.
Last week, I don't think that there was one encouraging comment..now..... I know we need to go on from that result but maybe...just maybe,less negative more positive might help,and please give the club a bit more time to achieve the turnabout in play that we inherited from McClaren...
Great result. i am delighted. however let us look at the only ngative thing i have to say ( and i am not taking anything away from a super team effort.)
We really should have won that game dare i say as convincingly as the 4-1 Utd game. Tuncay was excellent but he did miss a sitter. Now if hasselbaink had been in that position when rocky put tuncay through, i do believe the ball, keeper and the net would have left the stadium!!!!
The point i want to make is that we still need a 20 goal a season man. if i read that boro put an official ã10m bid for ronaldinho, why don't we use that money to get a striker we can actually persuade to join us. how about adriano?
he was offered to us before and he is returning to form.
to GS. NOW THAT ROCKY IS SUSPENDED, BRING MENDY IN TO THE SQUAD. AGAINST THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE, YOU CAN MEASURE HIS PERFORMANCE WHILE HAVING OPTIONS TO CHANGE THE GAME FROM THE BENCH. NOW IS THE TIME. GO ON BORO AND MENDY!!!!
1st and formost great game, great entertainment, great result. We battled scrapped and played some great football, some of the movement was awesome and showed pace, awareness and control.
Arsenal you could say where feeling the affects of a tough week but we made it even harder for them by pressurising and making them chase the ball rather than the other way round.
Great result but where has it come from?
For me the key is playing players in there correct positions and sticking to a game plan. Too many times this season we have looked rigid and lost shape and concentration.
It was a bench mark for where performances should be and and a light at the end of a long tunnel as to the talent of this team.
Yes we played well but can we sustain it? Can we go to derby and play like this again and get a run together?
One game doesn't make a season and we are still in a relegation battle so we need to go to Derby and show the same steel and level of commitment and the skill will come through.
Yesterday we earnt the right to play now we need to do that against every other team in this league.
Im a pessimistic person by nature and because of this there I have a niggling problem with yesterdays performance. If the players can play that well but don't do it for 15 games of a season then turn it on for a game thats on TV/Against a big club it tells me one startling thing -
THE PLAYERS DONT WANT TO PLAY IN SOME GAMES!
If your players constantly play badly and then all magically turn it on to such a high degree there is no way to suggest any different, than they are playing for themselves of playing for moves.
Its depressingly true, and it was every player barring one Rochemback. He was his usual awful self yesterday, he did the occasional good pass but was constantly giving away freekicks, losing possession and neither getting forward or getting back.
You will all shoot me down for these comments, but after the Derby performance where its back to the usual 20% effort you will all sing my tune.
js, rather than bring Mendi in against Derby, surely it'd be wiser to be bringing Arca back to full fitness in that role?
And with a bench of Skippy, Huth, Catt, Jinky and mido/dgl/ hutchinson (depending on who's fit) we'd have all the options there
Same team, same effort, same commitment, same game plan, then surely (dare I say it) we could be looking at back-to-back wins?!
A classic match to savour. One to add to the pantheon of epic performances such as the Man U and Chelsea games, after the recent dross.
For me the two best moments (goals apart) were Wheater's crunching (and legitimate) tackle which took out two Arsenal players,provoking a spontaneous roar of approval from the crowd, and Rocky's superb run and pass to put Tuncay in for his miss.
While we can all enjoy the moment, it is still obvious we need a target man and a clinical finisher. Let us see what January brings in the hope it shows the Club's commitment to making further progress and retaining Premier status.
Trev
Most of us have been posting wishing the team would give it a go for months now. To earn the right to play football
We have posted that DGL shouldnt play and to give Tuncay a run, in truth anyone but Dong Goal Less.
If we continue to play the way we did against Arsenal we will all be delighted. The best way to shut up the doubters is not giving them a reason to doubt.
The next step is against Derby. If the committed, all action conquerors of Arsenal turn up I will cheering from the away end alongside JP. If we have really turned the corner we should get three points from the Rams.
If we revert to 'lets sit back and wait and see' mode and either sneak a draw or lose then any criticism will be well deserved.
It is in the teams hands, I dont go to matches and boo and never will but reserve the right to say it as it is after the match. The signs are good but that is all they are.
Dear Lewis Thompson, Fabio Rochembach had a good game!
Okay he gave away a few free kicks but he did so stopping quick and fluent Arsenal play and gave our boys a chance to get back behind the ball. Once he had the ball he created space and held the ball up well.
His shots were off target but but the defender was closing him down and the ball was still bouncing. You know that he played well when Wenger singled him out for illegally stopping them attacking .
Arsene Wenger had his blinkers on again. I would love to hear what he has to say about Emmanuel Eboue and his kung fu kick on Downing , not to mention him slapping Pogger earlier in the match.
How Gilberto Silva did not get a card I will never know. I saw 3 yellow cardable fouls on our lads. Of course Motd2 did not show that or the amount of times Gael Clichy played dirty.
Boateng proved himself and I have never seen anyone chase the opposition keeper and defence so late in a game as the man of the match TUNCAY.
Great team performance !
Anthony,
I have just read your report regarding the Arsenal game, I do agree with you in most points apart from your comments regarding the ref.
If people read your report who were not at the game they may think we were lucky because of the referee, we were unlucky not to score more and for Arsenal to score their goal in the 95th minute when 4 minutes extra time came up (were did the ref get the other minute from ?)
I was at the game, I sit in the north east corner and it looked like a penalty and when I got home my opinions were right when I saw it on TV.
Anthony could you please tell how many penalties we have had for and against since Cardiff 29/02/2004 compared to other premier league clubs.
Also some of the free kicks that Arsenal got outside our box were questionable, if they had scored from one of them what would you say about the ref then ?
Geoff Richardson.
**AV writes: It evened itself out but there was a spell in the first half where the press box was openly laughing at the number of throws and corner/goal kick decisions were going our way. It doesn't happen often, indulge me.
Vic, I'll ask again mate. What is the issue between Woody and Southgate? I don't buy Paylor's version in today's paper. I want to know YOUR opinion.
**AV writes: I'm not sure there is an "issue". Woody was taken off at Reading and asked about it Gate said it wasn't an injury or fitness issue and it was assumed that it was because of his mistake for the goal.
Woody was taken off again against Arsenal and looked disappointed - which you would expect - and Southgate hinted it was cramp which given the pace of the game wouldn't be a surprise but to be fair Huth needs pitch minutes and somone had to give for that to happen. For my money Wheater was having a stormer and I wouldn't have taken him off so Woody was the logical choice.
For me it is strong management to take off the star name if it is the right move for the team, even if they don't want to to be subbed.
Sometimes we look for sinister motives even when the real reasons are pretty mundane.
An all round fantastic performance and one that everyone associated with the club can be justifiably proud of.
Unlike Trev above however one decent performance in 3 months does not change anything.
Now if the effort and determination shown yesterday is a line in the sand and a marker for future performances then we can have reason for optimism. Only time, true grit and application will determine whether this was an opportunistic blip or the true dawning of a new era.
Wonder what odds the bookies will give for DGL starting next week away from the glare of the Riverside?
Magnificent ! Best Boro display I've seen for years. Tuncay just out of this world.
Now where's Tony Black hiding.....?
I think going into the bottom 3 after Reading finally hit home with the players. They realised only they could dig in and battle their way out. Good to see all the players put in the work rate,commitment and concentration.
Special mention to Tuncay who added a bite upfront which we have lacked all season. With his closing down defenders didn't have all the time in the world on the ball. All we needed to complete a perfect day was an Ali shot on target.
I don't expect us to sustain that level again but hopefully players can show more committment in games. Sometimes you feel they have been cheating us with half hearted effort
Geoffrey Richardson,
Yakubu and viduka were masters at getting dubious penalties for boro. More than coincidence we get few this season.
What a great performance and what a great result!
Well done lads.
A well done also to Southgate who has come under massive fire of late, especially by me, fire that I don't take back just because of this result as my opinion doesn't change.
But, as I've said, a very well done to him and to all at the club. We all want to proved wrong and let's hope that this is the just the start.
What I would say is this.
I don't subscribe to the view that we were lucky or that we won simply because Arsenal didn't play well.
Yes, they didn't play as well as usual, but I've no doubt that a major factor was because they were all too sure of victory and because we took advantage of this and hit them hard, putting them under unexpected pressure.
That said, the question that Southgate and the coach's need to ask is this. Formations and tactics apart, if we can beat the mighty Arsenal with such a misfiring, unbalanced, depleted, injury hit squad, why can't we beat other teams of far lesser capabilities ?
Personally, I feel that this is because of a problem of mentality where we raise our game against the big boys because of who they are, and are unable to do the very same against lesser clubs, because of who they are.
But for once I want to end on a positive note and I am ever so happy to be able to do so.
Well done, and let's do exactly the same in our next game where a win would make a really big, big difference.
Gareth, forget what formations to play. Go 442 for the foreseeable future and play the best people in their best positions and let them form partnerships and a settled way of playing where they can get to know their teammates inside out.
TB
It was nice to hear Wenger heaping praise on both the Boro, and Southgate after seeing his team well and truly played off the park. Could you ever imagine the red faced Scot doing that? He would choke on his wad of wrigly's rather than give credit when its due,
Same again at Derby pretty please lads.
paulverine. i didn't say start mendi. i said bring him in to the squad. personally i think that class and flair in mendi is better than tough tackling football you'll get from the likes of cattermole. against the poorest football team we need to play football, not scrap for a win.
SPECIAL MENTION FOR BOATENG, HE ACTUALLY PASSED LAST WEEK!!! GREAT GAME GEORGE.
Great show from the lads but great display from the crowd too. Credit where due. Non stop singing, some good songs, excellent applause for every player, strong support for the Gate and for his substitutions. Was a pleasure and enjoyable to be there for a change.
And it was a great display of unity going into Christmas and boy we needed it because two weeks ago we were all at each others throats back-biting and the club looked like it was falling to bits.
Now we have tonked Arsenal and if we can win at Derby and keep playing like that then we can go into the second half of the season a lot of confidence. I'm not scared of relegation no more.
every year when boro are deep in the annual crisis villa come here and rip us apart and there is hell on with the crowd - but then the next home game we beat the league leaders everyone rallies round and we go on a run.
we should ask the fa to give us villa at home first day of the season every year so we can get the low point out of the way early on then enjoy the rest.
Fantastic day alround against the Gooners, hopefully we all won't be back in the doldrums after playing Derby.
Just read
Former England manager Steve McClaren has finally won a trophy - the Plain English Campaign's annual Foot in Mouth award. The prize is given for speaking a load of gibberish
"That said, the question that Southgate and the coach's need to ask is this. Formations and tactics apart, if we can beat the mighty Arsenal with such a misfiring, unbalanced, depleted, injury hit squad, why can't we beat other teams of far lesser capabilities ? "
Read that again Tony and you have your answer.
Saturday was the first game for some time where we didn't have a depleted and injury-hit squad (relatively-speaking) AND we also had a strong bench - so strong in fact that there was no place for Cattermole.
The injury crisis that we have endured has had a massive effect on Southgate's freedom to get the team and style he wants on the pitch. Many fans have refused to give sufficient weight to this. If it disrupts a team like Arsenal why do some Boro fans think that it shouldn't apply to us.
If we can now keep our key players fit (and get Mido up and running) then the negativity that has seeped through the cracks in the character of many fans (your good self being a prime example) will have to form the scabs of some future crisis.
**AV writes: Brilliant imagery Beeline.
Lets not get carried away. The players clicked at the right time when arsenal were off form and key players missing. I remember Derby beating Manutd at old trafford and getting beat still.
This is a start but lets hold judgement until we are safely in mid table. We are still only 1 point form a relegation position.
We just have to hope the players show the same desire and commitment for the remaining games of the season
Hi AV,
EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE!! At last we played with bite and intelligence. Now all we need do is fill the ground by whatever way possible.
Now if the backroom staff can learn from my high level intellect (8 universities) then they should be able to achieve that goal easily.
Robin Mitton
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS
beeline - well said.
Robin Mitton, eight universities!! Blimey I'm impressed, I'd thought about trying to add a few to my collection to catch up, but at the rate you're going I've no chance.
I hope Boro can gather the same sort of momentum in the prem. If they do we'll be back in the UEFA next season!
Basking in the after-glow of Sunday is great, the biggest plus for me was the commitment and workrate of the front two not only does that put the opposition under pressure but it gets the fans going to which in turn gets the players going, its a perfect circle.
Just read
Former England manager Steve McClaren has finally won a trophy - the Plain English Campaign's annual Foot in Mouth award. The prize is given for speaking a load of gibberish
I have investigated further and found out that Robbin Mitton came in a close second!
**AV writes: We would go to press conferences and take a good short hand note of every word he said over 20 minutes or so then read through it later and realise there was actually nothing of substance to tie together the string of psycho-babble buzz phrases.
Terry Venables was worse. When he set off on a sentence no-one, least of all him, every knew exactly where it was going.
The thing about McLaren that was so laughable was his habit of speaking without using any verbs e.g. "came out first half...went one down...heads drop...here we go...second half...battled back...tremendous character (his stock phrase, disturbing to hear SG using it sometimes)...got the goal...could have had more...settled for a point...pleased."
And just to make the point again that I have made before, Viduka and Yakubu are no loss to Boro. Yes, Yak got a hat-trick but everyone can see it's one of the easy games for him, he will disappear again against the big clubs. As for Viduka, more 'calf strains' keeping him out for an implausible number of games, not many goals, and great "gemini man" impressions against Liverpool and Blackburn.
Dear AV, Nigel and Forever Nappy,
Might be 9 unis soon if my Phd thesis proposal is accepted by King's (London). Being wantonly clever is my hobbie you see.
It would have been very nice if only I could have poured my sweet genius over the porous souls of BORO commercial dept. Life should be a heuristic text = soak it up and go and find out I suppose...or perhaps not for some.
Anyway chaps must go as I have some detailed analysis and planning to complete with regards to our proposed Pro Youth Football Academy.
Robin Mitton
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS
Vic,
Thanks for your thorough response regarding the Woody-Southgate saga. My mind is now at ease.
Malc
Beeline Wrote
" Read that again Tony and you have your answer.
Saturday was the first game for some time where we didn't have a depleted and injury-hit squad (relatively-speaking) AND we also had a strong bench - so strong in fact that there was no place for Cattermole. "
Middlesbrough Vs Aston Villa 0 - 3
Schwarzer, Young, Woodgate, Wheater, Pogatetz, O'Neil, Cattermole (Rochemback 53), Boateng, Johnson, Aliadiere (Hutchinson 75), Downing.
Subs Not Used: Turnbull, Sanli, Taylor.
Middlesbrough Vs Reading 1 - 1: Turnbull, Young, Woodgate (Huth 69), Wheater, Pogatetz, Johnson (Cattermole 89), Boateng, Rochemback, Downing, Aliadiere, Lee (Sanli 70).
Subs Not Used: Steele, Hutchinson.
Middlesbrough Vs Arsenal: 2 - 1 Turnbull, Young, Wheater, Woodgate (Huth 73), Pogatetz, O'Neil, Boateng, Rochemback, Downing, Sanli (Johnson 90), Aliadiere (Arca 81). Subs Not Used: Steele, Lee.
I'm not quite sure that this,
" was the first game for some time where we didn't have a depleted and injury-hit squad (relatively-speaking) "
actually reflects the facts, in fact, I know that is doesn't, and so I completely stand by...
" That said, the question that Southgate and the coach's need to ask is this. Formations and tactics apart, if we can beat the mighty Arsenal with such a misfiring, unbalanced, depleted, injury hit squad, why can't we beat other teams of far lesser capabilities ? "
TB
Lewis Thompson, rochemback has had a fine season and as someone said in a earlier post, he stopped arsenal from getting into any sort of fluent passing game.
Rochemback has had a lot of criticism over his time at Boro and i have to say some of it is very undeserved and when the team plays badly, he is the scapegoat like downing was for england.
Players like cattermole has been far more inconsistent yet he does one good sliding tackle and hes suddenly a Boro hero, ridiculous.
Lewis Thompson said 'I'm a pessimistic person by nature' - that must be the biggest under-statement that I have heard in my life. If the government had a position as "The Minister For Gloom" Lewis would be an absolute shoo-in to be elected.
Spartapussy,
I eat pies...
I have just watched the video email that Boro sent out featuring David Wheater.
Did anyone else notice that Wheater said "and when I run my guts out for 70 minutes". And here's me thinking a game lasts 90 minutes!!!
Maybe thats why we have lost so many matches. The management forgot to tell the players there is an extra 20 minutes to the game. Isn't that about the amount of time we switched off against Villa??
Maybe if they had run their guts out for 90 minutes in all the early games we lost, we may have been in the top 10 of the Premier League by now.
C'mon Boro, you showed you can work hard for 90 minutes against Arsenal. Lets show that same drive and commitment against every team we face for the rest of the season.
AV - I first wanted to comment on the previous "thread" in that I can verify that your player valuations are certainly too low. While someone's thought of 6m for Catt is probably too high, nevertheless the German footie player valuation site lists Pogatetz as over 5m.
Speaking of which, I have to give Gate high marks for figuring out what has eluded you - that Taylor is still not yet Prem Left Back level, while Pogatetz is one of the best left backs, and since we have 3 excellent centre backs now, he did exactly the right thing with the back line.
Of course, he himself has played on the field with Pog at left back, so he knows this first hand.
Now, concerning the match, Boro did not play any better than the previous match or two, and Tuncay did not play any better. Basically, everyone notices his excellent and creative play when he is on the score sheet, but when he made the same runs several weeks ago, and no one passed him the ball, no one noticed (other than me, and undoubtedly the Turkish blokes).
That no one notices any attacking play is clear from the fact that I don't see the word YOUNG in any of the post-match accolades. For the past 3 matches, he has been involved in most of our successful attacks, but as a defender, people only see his tackles.
We still miss Mido desperately, and I hope that encountering - as a previous poster noticed - a depleted and tired Arsenal, doesn't cause the MFC staff to suddenly think that we don't need anyone in January.
Those who poo-poo the idea of "James Beattie" must not see the Championship Top Scorer List on SSN - there he is with 12 goals already - does Boro have 12 goals total so far ? I always rated him, and I thought it odd that no Prem team signed him in August.
More importantly, I think we need an Attacking Football Assistant Manager. Avram Grant brought in a new assistant, and things have only improved for them since then, and Grant is still in charge. Gate should do the same.
Trev. wrote...
âÂÂPlease can we have a re-run of "knockers comments" inc.Gibson out, Southgate outâÂ?
Yes you certainly can! My criticism is based upon GibsonâÂÂs âÂÂboom and bustâ leadership of this club, not just a âÂÂgame-by-gameâÂ? analysis. Steve GibsonâÂÂs business achievements in rescuing this club and providing the facilities it now has, are phenomenal, but his football decisions have been woefully inept.
It is Gibson who stood after the Carling Cup success and said that he was going to take this club to another level.
That strategy needed not just resources and capabilities, but timing. He missed the boat! The stakes have been raised in terms of the finance needed (thank you Abramovich). The standard of management and footballing vision/philosophy has gone to a higher level (thank you Mourinho). It is obvious which clubs and managers have risen to the challenges and those that havenâÂÂt.
Not for the first time in the 40+ years I have supported this club, have we been presented with such a âÂÂfalse dawnâÂ?. But never had we had such an opportunity to attract the investment and talent needed for us to provide what has been desired and promised for so long.
The players on the pitch, as on Sunday and this Saturday at Derby, will always have my full support. IâÂÂm Boro âÂÂthrough-and-throughâÂ?.
But, I will use an outlet like this to express my feelings. If IâÂÂm wrong, I will stand in the same manner and accept it accordingly. I do not have blind faith in Gibson and one performance against a weakened team (and given the game they had in midweek), does not constitute a turn-around from a position we should never have been in.
TB - I agree, if GS can get Boro playing with the same commitment in every game that they showed on Sunday then he'll have achieved something no manager since Jack Charlton (except Brucie for a short period) has managed. That ability is what seperates the best managers from the rest.
I also agree with Nick Hill, I believe Rocky is a class act and has had an excellent season, unfortunatley because it took him so long to adjust to the prem. and he made a lot of daft mistakes many fans are now convinced he is cr*p. The same thing has happened countless times before to other players.
I think what makes me optimistic after Sunday and the previous few games previous is that several of the new players are starting to settle and play well.
Young and O'Neill have given us the strongest right side we've had for years. Aliadiere looks good and the icing on the cake on Sunday was Tuncay, if he maintains that level of workrate coupled with his obvious talent in no time at all we'll all be sweating that one of the big boys will want him. Lets pray he has Juninho's loyalty.
It's also good to see GS subbing one of the teams stars, ie Woodie, it demonstrates strength of character on the managers part and sends out a strong message.
I'm a huge fan of Woodie but nobody should be untouchable. Whether he was subbed because he had cramp or not is neither here nor there.
It is also a positive reflection on the class of centre backs we have available now that we can sub one of the countries best players in that position against the team at the top of the table without any worries that his replacement will be okay.
All the best teams are built from the back first there are some green shoots of optimism I think, lets hope they are not trampled on and crushed, we need a run of good results now.
In the debate between TB and Beeline the words of Gate must be considered.
We came up with a 'game plan' for Arsenal that involved closing them down and keeping the pressure up. We played with pace, tempo and no little panache.
Isnt that what they are paid to do anyway?
O'Neil also states they wanted to win this one for the boss, we would like the players to try and do the same every week. Of course, the press and football like this sort of soundbite so it must carry a health warning.
Sometimes it takes a while for things to come together and then you are up and running. Let us hope this is one of those situations, similar performances against Derby and West Ham would show we are getting there.
A return to half hearted, sloppy performances would be disheartening.
AV
You have placed quotation marks around my comments about Gate, they were not direct quotes.
**AV writes: Sorry, the structure of the sentence made them appear so. I will remove them.
I echo all the comments about the individual displays at the weekend, but for me the MoM performance came from Wheater.
He eclipsed Woodgate and presented Arsenal with one hurdle too many as they attempted to get back in the game. IâÂÂve seen some great centre backs play for The Boro over the years â trust me this boy is a jewel.
AV, why have mfc brought out this stupid ticket policy?
As i read it it is only available to under 11s who buy a half season ticket. However under 11s must be accompanied by an adult and what if the adult does not have a season ticket and dosn't wish to attend all our remaining games?
The tickets should be slashed full stop for all age groups and a small saving is no good. We will get the team the town can afford - the town cant afford to go to games. so get these prices down and the fans will come back.
Tony, perhaps I was not clear when I said "Saturday (sic) was the first game for some time...", although I thought it was obvious from the rest of my post that I was talking about the injury crisis that has disrupted the whole season.
I'm not quite sure what your point is in listing the teams for the last three games - if anything it reinforces my point that the injury crisis has been the major reason for our poor season - and of course it's not the only reason.
The performance against Reading was good and we could (and should) have won. Against Villa we put in a decent first half performance and with the kind of early break that we got against Arsenal who knows what might have happened. Won 1, drawn 1, lost 1 is better than you'd expect from a team in our position.
Our perfomances are improving in line with the return of, and as important, fitness of those coming back from long-term injury. There will be setbacks (watch out for saturday), but that's football - an art not a science.
On the woody debate its obvious he hasnt been the same player this season so one has to believe he is carrying some kind of injury,although he did seem to snub gs when taken off.
By the way we didnt have a team for the reserves the other night. Where was riggs, cats and the invisible man shawky? I know when teams want to sign your players they like to have them in early to train and see how they fit with their current squad. Just a thought.
**AV writes: It is a thought well wide of the mark.
Ian Oliver - clearly Wheater had an excellent game on Sunday but if you look at the MFC website Tuncay has over 80% of the vote for motm. I only saw highlights on SKY and from what I saw Tuncay was slightly ahead of Wheater.
Perhaps Tuncay got a high approval rating from the fans as an endorsement and acknowledgment of his commitment where as we all know Wheater is a fully committed player.
Ian Gill - now come on get those sentence structures right! Its just as well AV can reed and rite proper like.
AV
Cheers for that.
As for the video clip by email, I havent received it though I may do so shortly. As a subscriber to KGB World and a regular recipient of Stazi News I thought I would be a prime candidate for the thoughts of Chairman Gibbo and one of the products of his pure youth army taking the state forward in their quest against the capitalist lap dogs of the premiership.
**AV writes: I have the directors' cut on my PC at work and will post it tomorrow if I can figure out how.
just read that boro are allegedly making an offer for adriano........any hope?????
AV
I have just receieved an email from MFC. Are you sure that you are not being tapped, check that daffodil that follows your movements, you know the one you got from that nice Dave Allen as a present for Mrs V.
Oh, sorry, it isnt about the video footage, its a promotional survey with MFC on the top that offers me something to do with Sky. Arent they the paymasters of the capitalist lap dogs of the premiership.
It is odd that I receive nothing informative from MFC but plenty that involves parting me from my money. It is bad enough paying ã50+ in rail fare plus ticket, plus food and drink, plus shuttle bus fares to watch Dong Goal Less at Reading without suffering the charmless offensives of sundry affiliates of MFC trying to part me from yet more money.
And I believe in the free market!
Watched the Rangers game agaianst in the Champs League last night to run the rule over Cousin who is supposed to be one of our January targets.
I hope those who are promoting his cause watched too. Hopeless - and substituted at half time for a makeshift attacker.
No, thanks.
AV - have you heard anything about a deal for Cattermole plus cash to Sheff U for Beattie?
**AV writes: Wild speculation surely? Hasn't everyone that counts said Beattie is going nowhere?
John
I watched the first half of the Rangers match and thought Cousin had a shocker. Poor control, dreadful passing. Just the chap!
AV - yes, but this is the same Bryan Robson who said 'I thought the lads did really well until Stoke scored'
Stoke scored after 90 seconds on the way to a 3 - 0 win.
Ian, John
The Harry Redknapp quote about buying a Crotian player (I can not remember his name) comes to mind when you talk about Cousin.
The agent said to Harry after the game '10 million would not buy him after that performance'
To which Harry replied 'Yes and I'm one of them'
Working in Dubai I watch the live Prem games on the Showtime channels, out of Saudi Arabia, with English commentary featuring Rob McCaffrey and âÂÂpunditsâÂÂ, including our very own Derek Whyte no less. HeâÂÂs a bit better at âÂÂpunditryâ than he was at defending by the way!.
Anyway, there are Showtime Sports 1, 2, 3, 4 channels and Showtime Extra if there are more than 4 games at any one time. This week, because there are seven games at 3pm Showtime are struggling for sports channel space .
The Derby v Boro will be shown live but, typically, we will not be shown on the sports channels. However I think it a bit unfair that we have been unceremoniously shifted to .......Showtime Comedy! It could only happen to Boro.
I guess Showtime scheduled that before the Arsenal game when we were in real danger of becoming a laughing stock. I hope itâÂÂs not an omen.
I'll be using my red-book for the first time this season, against the Hammers on Dec 22nd, a couple of beers in the Monk first. Here's to 20 points before Christmas.
Come on Boro.
**AV writes: Let's hope the joke is on Derby.
Dear Simon Mitchel, Wheater's comments about 'running his guts out for 70 minutes' are trying to tell the fans to keep shouting and push the team on all the way. NOT that the team deliberately give up after 70 mins.
He is trying to create some symbiosis mate between the team and the fans. Okay it is a scripted clip but his commitment makes me believe him 100percent!
As much as the team need to be confident for the full 90 so do the fans and express that vocally .[Arsenal match apart that is]
Holly Juninho, That Arsenal match has made me sound like a GIBBO disciple.... I have seen the light!
Up the BORO !!!!!
PS Great news Fab Rock is not banned for the Derby match. Same team same performance. Continuity and consistency are the way forward.
Ok the world has gone mad....i see today the boro are close to signing dica from Steau for 3.5 million ....omg!!!!! Being an expat living in bucharest i find this unbelievable....he is dreadful!!!!
I see him everyweek on TV and he has not managed to learn to tie his shoelaces never mind the art of not being offside!!!! Which he is 40 times a game.
What a joke and a total waste of money....if southgate see's him as the answer the guy needs the asylum now!!! There are some fabulous players here but Dica is not one of them!!!!
Just heard about this Dica link on SSN! Must admit I can't remember him playing aginst Boro! Mind you I can't remember a lot about that night apart from Maccarone's goal and the crazy celebrations!
Not a great write up from Chris like which is worrying! Mind you we were told Lee-Dong Gook was a world beater by those 'in the know'in Korea!
Also now the Arsenal win is not as fresh in the memory I am rather anxious about a 'Typical' Boro moment at Pride Park on Saturday! Anbody else feeling the same way?