Talking Boro....
SOME of Teesside's finest football minds from a broad range of professional perspectives have been harnessed to bring you an incisive, no-holds-barred analysis of Boro's season so far. That's what it says here anyway!
With ten games under our belts the international break seems a perfect point to assess the pros and cons of what has been a stuttering start. To that end the Gazette assembled a Question Time style "Talking Boro" panel to tackle the big issues of the season so far - injuries, squad depth, failure to score, leaking goals, falling crowds - and had a civilised, productive and provocative two hour chin wag over a pannini or two at Sassaris.
Here's the first instalment. And here's the second. And another one. And one more. Oh, go on then.... See what you think. Any questions for the next one?
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Anthony Vickers
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AV, no offence, as I really enjoy your blogs and I really appreciate the time and effort that you put into them, as your passion is obvious and so is your desire for a blog with real open debate, fire and integrity.
That said, a few hardcore Boro loyalists too afraid to ask the blatantly obvious questions, people part of the propaganda machine plus Bernie " Gibson is God, the King of Teesside" Slaven " does not make for productive anything in my book, I'm afraid to say. For me there's only you who has the balls to speak his mind without fear.
Do you honestly want REAL debate ?
Do you honestly want to make a REAL difference ?
Do you honestly want us to be REALLY interested ?
Yes? Then next time MAKE it a TRUE Question Time with an audience, the fans, where WE can ask all of you ANYTHING we want without ANY of our questions being edited, or watered down. Then I'll be impressed.
Until then, go and have your cuppa and sarnies at Sassari, enjoy them as you REALLY deserve it, but keep the collective thoughts of the rest to the privacy of your table.
TB
**AV writes: I think the Talk Boro panel discussion was productive and things were said by all the participants that will be seen as very much "off message" by the club.
We are currently looking at other ways of spreading the debate and engaging a wider audience, one of which is possibly taking a similar panel on the road and doing as you suggest and take question directly from fans.
There is no chance of anything published from that being "unedited" though. We must always be on aware of potential libel. For instance, as you will notice I have made some cuts to your post....
there wasnt many arguments was there? does everyone but southgate see that dong goalless is not up to the job?
that picture in the gazette yesterday was a bit scary wasnt it? fashion wise slaven has wandered offside with that scarf.
I think it's interesting exercise to hear a real-time discussion rather than a series of connected monologues - Yes, and maybe having an real-time audience to pick up on points raised would help focus the panel on what fans are really wanting the answer to.
The idea that the clubs official view and the fans unofficial view need to be different is somewhat strange. I think it's a matter of the board communicating what it's short, medium and long-term goals are and then being accountable to whether they are being achieved.
Afterall, SG and KL are only guardians of the town's football club - so far they done on the whole a good job - but like any institution they need to be accountable and ultimately replaceable (competition for places I think it's called).
Though the main problem at the moment is that by winning the League Cup, getting to the UEFA final and finishing 7th has set the benchmark high.
However, employing a rookie manager and cutting our cloth accordingly doesn't seem like these benchmarks are going to be reached again anytime soon.
And I'll say it again, maybe more pertinent to this post!
'After a quick skim through the Legion of Light (belongs to the other half - SAFC magazine), I noticed they have a Customer Charter, so whilst this post might not relate to the blog, I felt I needed to share it!
Ultimately the reason behind posting this excerpt is not to show how good a club can be at customer interaction, but what MFC need to adopt in an attempt to stop alienating the fans. Whilst the SAFC customer charter is more comprehensive than the point below, I felt this summarised what really we are missing.'
SAFC Customer Charter
'OUR COMMITTMENT TO THE FUTURE
Throughout the 07/08 season and beyond the Club aims to continue a positive and productive dialogue with supporters aimed at ensuring that we are working together for a common goal.'
AV
Pubs, clubs, radio, TV, newspapers, fanzies, blog etc. etc.
The only people who can do the "talking" are the players who pull on the RED shirt of The Boro - week in week out - ON THE PITCH.
QUESTION - Are they HUNGRY enough for the fight for success - I think not - except for a few exceptions and one of them is buzzing for The Hornets - bring him home!!!!!!!!!!
Just addin' to my last post:
My missus hates footy but we still discuss the sport - and I reckon she may have a point - a NO WIN - NO FEE "pay policy" may just be the answer we need to kick start our season!?
It is all very well the Gazette talking. The problem as usual is that the club are not listening. They have turned institutional hard-of-hearing into an art form.
Even if you produced an unassailable analysis and the definitive answer they would sit there with their fingers in their ears going la-la-la-la.
In fact, you at the Gazette, Bernie and Jeff Winter have now put yourself beyond the pale. As Lambie said, "you are either with us or against us" and by even discussing problems is admitting they exist and therefore you are against them.
how can you have a serious panel with out Robin Mitton?
vote mitton!
Hi Anthony at al,
Closer and closer....will give you guys the news next week. So delighted for our Rugby though "One Nation Under A groove"...Boroland next for me as I is coming up for Chels game.
SG get your retirement liner ready for Monaco in a few years time...I'm planning on taking the Derby and Jones out of the club.
Robin Mitton
Managing Director
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS
and why not Ruggers as well eh?
All a farce this 'big debate' lark. 2 guys who are employed by the Gazette, who might as well be owned by MFC, and 2 guys who work for radio stations who want to keep onside for next time the commentary rights are dished out. And the fan sounds like a ra-ra.
How about someone mentioning Southgate's total inability to coach defenders? Or his 3 wins in 24 PL away games because of our pansy midfielders who don't turn up away from home? Or even Southgate's dreadful eye for a striker.
At least bernie is happy to point out the reality that Aliadiere will never score goals. 2 in 14 during his loan spell in the Championship tole me that years ago though.
Hi guys
I am a friend of Robin Mitton. I am surprised coming from management and marketing background and seeing that his team is going downwards ( losing matches ) some people still think the team is doing fine. Gosh I hope I could get a job like that where I do mistakes a few times and what I get is a pat on my shoulder saying everything is OK !!!
Well lets add some creative management and marketing to the club which seems to be getting closer and closer to the bottom part of the league.
And hey !! has management consulted the fans about what they want ??
Yours
Juan C Sanz
creative management and marketing for ALL ORGANISATIONS
Dear AV,
Is it true BORO's Matketing Manager was once a bus driver from North Ormesby? And he got the job because he told our creative management that he was "very close to the club!" - which living in North Ormesby he would be.
I hope this is just a silly rumour as I find it hard to believe our management team could be taken in with such arrant nonsense.
Anyway guys I am now thinking of starting a company which makes football clubs useless then once I've achieved that I'll apply for a job at the BORO!
Robin Mitton
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS
Dear AV,
To all BORO EXECS,
Please let me recall some of the main ideas about mangement from former business guru Mr Peter Drucker ( who sadly passed away last year ) and quote from the founder of SONY Mr. Akio Morita (now sadly passed away too):
"But the remarkable thing about management is that a manager can go for years making mistakes that no one is aware of, which means that management can be a kind of con-job.
"This is because management, despite the work of the Harvard business school and others, and the increasing number of holders of advanced degrees in business administration, is an elusive thing that cannot always be judged by next quarter's bottom line but at the same time may be destroying the company by failing to invest in the future.
"To my mind, the performance of a manager is measured by how well that manager can organize a large number of people and how effectively he or she can get the highest performance from each of the individuals and blend them into a coordinated performance. That is what management is. It does not start at the bottom line of the balance sheet, which can be black one day and red the next, no matter what you do.
"I told my managers recently, "What you are showing to your employees is not that you are an artist who performs by himself on the high wire, but you are showing them how you are attempting to attract a large number of people to follow you willingly and with enthusiasm to contribute to the success of the company." If you can do that the bottom line will take care of itself."
'MADE IN JAPAN' by Akio Morita
(E.P. DUTTON, 1986).
BORO's "large number of people" are dwindling so BORO execs kindly start searching your souls, start reading Harvard Business school at www.hbsedu.com , start loving and start appreciating our fans before you EVER start thinking about yourselves.
If you can achieve this metamorphosis then between us all the season may yet be saved. If you cannot then all I can leave you BORO execs with is this:
Moriturri Te Salutant - THOSE ABOUT TO
DIE I SALUTE
Robin Mitton
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS Ltd
Robin
I hope you are not to blame for
Mr Peter Drucker and Mr. Akio Morita deaths.
Please tell me you did not constantly e-mail or blog them causing them to be 'bored to death'
Off track from this blog but I see that Riquelme is still not playing for his club.
At club level he has been left in limbo, condemned to inactivity after falling out with the coach and directors of Villarreal.
Now he could be the missing link that Boro yearn for, he would also fit into the superstar catagory that SG mentioned during the summer.
I just couldn't believe this when i read about it in the paper and listened to it via the link on the site.
Seriously now, this is just so sad it's way beyond laughable. What kind of a line up of back slapping croanies, palm greasing, old boys network, boro affilaites is this ?
Are we seriously expected to believe that this will produce anything but the same old communist style MFC propaganda that we are allready subjected to and have to endure on a daily basis via the Gazette ?
Paylor, Winter and Slaven ! What a poor, poor line up. Oh my God - Seriously Mr Vickers. Put an end to this and stick to producing what seems to be a very informative and popular blog.
The talk of this get together or any other debate should only be about how the hell Southgate and his sidekick Cooper were ever allowed to set foot into management at this football club and what we can all do to boot these two jokers out.
We're in big trouble and all Southgate can continue to talk about is how united everyone is - yeah right ! Haha. I haven't laughed so much in ages.
Southgate and Cooper haven't go a damn clue. They, Lamb and now Jesus Christ Gibson who has such faith in these perennial losers need to all go.
How can people who are supposed to be experts be talking about positives. What positives ? Look at where we are in the league and at Southgates hideous record in management and that will tell you all you need to know.
And you people want to know why the crowds get ever smaller???
Tony Monaco
Well I have read the 2 instalments of the panel so far and have enjoyed the debate.
However I also see merit in much of the comments raised and support the idea of a Question Time type session - perhaps at one of the upcoming Supporters Club meetings.
The panel in my view is lopsided with 4 media people and 1 fan (ok i accept the media people are fans too but its a kind of professional vs amateur distinction I am making here) The media people cannot be as outspoken as they might wish to be - there needs to be more fan representatives.
Perhaps the OSC or FMTTM can supply a nominated representative too - shame the logistics prevent someone like MSS Geoff Vickers from taking part for example.
Lastly I know you vet these comments before publication - why do you allow all these Mitton and his cronies to gatecrash - his postings are totally off-topic - give him his own thread if you must.
**AV writes: Yes, you may be right. It may be time to get my big red pen out on our friendly freestyle football meglomaniac.
AV, I'm getting worried that I may not be qualified to comment on these boards.
My knowledge of Havard Business teachings are not on the money - and my latin is strictly limited to the few words the precede '...whatever will be will be, we're going to wembley' - and that the only quotations I've got much belief in are from my insurance company.
However, maybe I'll be able to give myself some authority by finishing off my messages with a job title - although being self-employed I am technically the managing director - it's a title I don't readily use.
So my message to Boro fans, as Kippling once said, is "You can't have your cake and eat it"
Never Happy,
You have found out my tactic...what a shame! I will then sing my mournful Lambentation instead thus:
We are going down like sheeps
To unearthly darkling swamps
Our fans marooned get no peeps
Lazarus's arise not like tramps!
I suggest we sing this dirge in a nightingalish (not to say nightmarish) contralto...it may unnerve the oppostion and even ourselves too if we are not careful!
Robin Le Mutton
GREAT UNHEARD OF POETS FOR NATIONS
As i disgruntled fan from the eindhoven debacle, i am sick and tired of hearing about the small crowd debate!
When is sumone goin 2 say that one of the main reasons for dwindling attendances, is that a vast majority of red book holders where overlooked for tickets for the biggest day in the clubs history, in favour of the club looking after its sponsors, employees, rat catchers, postmen, window cleaners, ex-referee's and anybody else who could'nt 'be bothered' to put their money where their mouth was, year after year, before the 'riverside revolution'!
I no longer have my precious red book, but still go to every game paying over the odd's because i love the team, and ill always be there because i follow my team middlesbrough, not the premiership or the big name opposition.
Its a shame that all those lifelong fans that jumped the queue are no longer interested in us now we are back where we use to dream of being!
Dear AV,
Dear Comrades,
It looks like I won't be back in a jiffy, Jiffy!
Robin
URCHIN OF ORWELL STREET UNLIMITED
r.e. previous msg:
Boroleper-
Boro "A person from the area of Middlesbrough"
Leper "Someone who is ignored by the majority, and is best thought of as never to have existed!"
Jiffy128, I am glad you have enjoyed the 2 installments of the panel's mass debate and I think your comments are spot on !
However I do think some of Mittons cronies
have made valid points about attacking midfield options [ or lack of], weakness upfront - Dong Gook and need to look at training methods as we seem to be blighted by injury.
I believe with a fully fit first team out we could be looking at tenth spot or just above which I would be reasonably happy with as some of the play so far has been good to watch [apart from the finish naturally]
Re the Transfer Debate.
Poor old Southgate has been saddled with the club gutted as a result of Big Mac's transfer failures. Not all those transfers were failures, but one in particular has completely undermined the club's finances, and the disgraceful treatment of Juninho disheartened the club and its real supporters.
The one success is Pogatetz, yet another stricken by the mind boggling injury record at Boro. Viduka and Yakubu came, saw, and had enough, but contributed something, if never enough.
Now the debate seems to be about strikers. Lee can do a job (not that Job), but the real weakness at Boro, apart from being crippled at the training ground, is midfield.
I hope Shawkey is as tough and useful as the Turks elsewhere (I know he's Egyptian) but there is a crying need for a top class, powerful midfielder, so that the absence of Arca and/or Rochenbach would not be critical.
Also, a good midfield helps the defence and helps the attack. There simply aren't enough goals coming from midfield, and there doesn't seem to be anyone with the technique to blast the ball. Start watching videos of Arsenal, over and over and over - even the smaller players know how to get power into the shot, and it's old fashioned technique (and lots of practice helps).
Will Boro ever aspire to a midfield again with the calibre of Juninho, Ince, and Ziege ? Plus a defence and some strikers !
But all great managers seem to agree (even the greatest, one Brian C.) that a good team is built from the back. Boro now have those players (when fit) so why the goals against? Midfield. Why the anxiety about strikers ? Midfield.
Be realistic Gareth, and scrap for those vital points, a la Keane. Then you'll start to get some supporters back.
Sorry about the length of this.
I will never forgive Steve Mclaren for his treatment treatment of Juninho. Just imagine Chelsea treating Zola like that.
Disgrace is an understatement.
Are we buying Gareth Barry of villa ?
Interesting debate, but as those above have said it would be even better if there were some fans involved.
That said there was nothing said that we don't already know, I'm sure GS knows it too.
AV - Mitton and his mates are hijacking this blog in my opinion, are you loosing 'posters'? I think you might be.
**AV writes: No I don't think so. The figures continue to go up month on month.
I have indulged him because he initially had some interesting points among the self-promotion. I think he should be aware of undermining that by turning himself into a cartoon figure he risks damaging his brand.
Injuries, injuries, injuries.
Gazette 13/10/2007. Crosby states Aliadiere available for Chelsea.
Northern Echo 13/10/2007. Aliadiere states broken down on Thursday and wont be back into training until after Chelsea.
Somebody must be right, couldnt be a case of two aspirins and run it off son could it? Maybe nobody has noticed he isnt training and hobbling around the training ground.
Hey ho.
frm
Lee can do a job - just what job would that be, then. Prem League striker clearly isn't it.
On a more general front - it's mid-October and already, as the leaves begin to fall, the Xmas stuff is appearing in the shops.
Another indication of the time of year is that we have the first Boro player - Aliadiere - saying 'Our season begins here'.
As ever, and as Ian would remind us, the problem is that everyone else started in August.
I'm now just waiting for that other old seasonal favourite - 'It was always going to be a transitional season.'
John
I'm favouring GS telling us its a new team playing a new style that has suffered with injuries.
It was always going to be a difficult season becuase of this, just watch us go next season.
Join the Boro bandwagon and get your ST early.
The problem is that next season we might be playing Ipswich, Gillingham and Hull.
Our local derby might be against Pools
How on earth could you assemble the likes of Berni
Slaven, Geoff Winter, Eric Paylor and Anthony Vickers all of whom are worth listening to, as well as numerous fans and still fail to identify and address the glaringly obvious problem that the Boro are faced with?
As a group you agreed on the obvious reasons for our poor performances, the chronic injury list we have 'up front' and the need for a 'settling in' period for the new recruits.
The Boro have a very serious and potentially very damaging problem which is the continuing selection of Mark Schwarzer.
Apart from his height Schwarzer has no qualities that support his selection:
- He has very 'slow feet' and poor reactions.
- He does not have the required athleticism for a professional goalkeeper (watch him get up off the floor ! He moves like a 50 year old and always has !)
- He lacks physical courage.
- He does not have a commanding personality.
- He shirks responsibilty.
- He has an outrageously inflated opinion of himself
- He is not a team player - insists on performing his half time ritual demonstrating to the crowd that he can stop shots and catch crosses (unchallenged) from a 60 year old goalkeeping coach instead of attending the halftime teamtalk where he might benefit from the comments and views of his team mates.
He is without question the worst goalkeeper in the premiership. Don't expect the TV and Radio pundits to highlight his inadequacy - they don't care about the Boro.
With Woodgate, Pogatetz, MacMahon, Taylor, Young, Arca, Downing, O'Neill, Johnson, Mido, Tuncay the Boro can field a genuinely attractive and dangerous team.
Secure the services of a solid, commtited goalkeeper and the Boro would fly up the league and match anyone in a one off cup game cup.
Most depressing of all is the fact that Mark will remain a fixture in the team irrespective of his appalling performances.There is no danger whatsover of another club 'stealing him away' its clear to everyone except the folks at the Boro how inadequate he is.
Its hard to blame Southgate entirely for the situation because Robson and McClaren selected Schwarzer too. There again Southgate is intelligent and should be able to realise there would be no danger in dropping him.
If Southgate wasn't so quick to 'ship out' skilfull
committed players like Morrison and Davies (there was queue of clubs waiting to sign him and not even a nibble for the unhappy, unloved, unimpressive and uninspiring Schwarzer) I'd have more patience with Gareth.
Mark's inadequacies are clearly illustrated when you watch how he deals with free kicks. Like many before him Elano of Man City floated a free kick past Shwarzer whose pedestrian, loping movement was pathetic to watch.
When the ball floats over the line take note of Schwarzers body positions
(i) Hes upright, not stretching in anyway
(ii) He's taken one maybe two slow footed steps
(iii) His 'saving arm' is not extended at all, he's not stretching at all.
(iv) He's blissfully unconcerned about the goal or his pitiful efforts
He reminds me of football on the school playing fields - some kids try hard in goal, some just 'do their time' and only stop a ball if it hits them. Mark belongs in the latter group.
For me his verbal contributions on and off the pitch and his general body language scream "Couldn't Care Less". I suspect Mark must be a nice guy because he does not attract much critical attention, its like he's invisible and not part of the team and not reponsible for anything.
Select another goalkeeper and things will improve immediately.
Regards
Scoredraw
**AV write: I agree that there is an on-going problem between the sticks but -ouch! - that is scathing stuff.
I think Schwarzer has been an above average keeper for the best part of a decade but since his demand for a transfer 18 months ago has tailed off and is now stale and past his best. Personally I would have addressed it in the Summer and would certainly go for Sorenson/Jaaskeliinien in January.
Are you advocating we play Jones in the meantime?
AV
I think Nigel was talking about the number of posters not the number of posts.
I certainly stopped posting until Robins output dropped off a tad though I certainly dont believe in censorship.
Anthony,
I think removing Schwarzer is a riskless decision because he is the least talented goalkeeper at the club.
As a manager Southgate needs to prioritise his approach to changing the club and team. It may seem to him that the most pressing problem he faces is the forwards injury problems. He needs to devote his attention to the Goalkeeper.
No matter how well Arca, Downing, Mido, Taylor and Woodgate have started their team spirit and confidence will suffer knowing that they are so weak in that increasingly critical position.
I accept I may sound harsh but let's face it Mark has probably 'picked up' between ã10m and ã15m in his ten years at the Boro. His only concern at the begining of the season was how shabbily the Boro treat ageing old 'stalwarts' like himself and Viduka.
He should get down on his knees every night and thank 'Sweet Jesus' for the fact that he's been employed by the Boro for 10 years. I'm embarrased by the fact we have put up with him for 10 years.
Maybe it's time to play Big Schwartzie up front and let Lee Dong Goalie do a job between the sticks - it would encourage the opposition to try audacious chips, which 99 times out 100 just float over the bar. So what's the worst that could happen?
Ian/AV - Yes I was refering to the number of people who post rather than the number of posts. Lets face it with the number of posts Mr. Mitton leaves the volume was hardly likely to fall.
I'm also against censorship, prehaps Mr. Mitton could solve the problem himself.
As an eternal optimist I agree with Aliadiere the season starts here..... onward and upward!!
DGL to be prem. top scorer by Easter!!!
The physioroom.com report Boro's injury list as below
B Jones Thigh Muscle Strain Dec 07
Mido Hamstring Injury 20th Oct 07
J Arca MCL Knee Ligament Injury 24th Nov 07
J Aliadiere Hamstring Injury 27th Oct 07
E Pogatetz Cartilage Knee Injury
3rd Nov 07
M Bates ACL Knee Injury Feb 08
R Huth Ankle/Foot Injury no return date
The clubs website (not updated since 5/10/07) says that Aliadiere will be fit to face Chelsea, and that Huth will be running this month.
AV - As the physio room have got Aliadiere's come back date correct, are they right in saying Huth is still no where near getting fit?
**AV writes: He has started running and light training but is not doing contact work at all yet. How long is a piece of ã6m string?
" How on earth could you assemble the likes of Berni Slaven, Geoff Winter, Eric Paylor and Anthony Vickers all of whom are worth listening to, "
As far as I'm concerened the only one worth listening to is Mr Vickers when he isn't gagged by the Gazette or the MFC PR machine.
Bernie Slaven refuses to ever dare question the King Of Teesside because he's such a butt kisser these days and so he has very little to add to an intelligent debate, and Eric " The Red " Paylor is an MFC party activist.
Jeff may well have been a good or even great referee, but is he going to ask the really tough questions that need asking or is he just going to go with the MFC line in order to climb the greasy poll ?
Then you have people like Hignett and en endless array of ex pro's who appear on the TV and 3 Legends and if truth be told only get where they are only because of the old boys network that opens the doors for them.
" and still fail to identify and address the glaringly obvious problem that the Boro are faced with? "
Yes, and even you do, in my opinion
THE PROBLEMS........
Gareth Southgate and Colin Cooper.
No experience. Learning and making an endless array of mistakes as they go with what they picked up along the way in their footballing carreers. Hardly a recipe for success is it ? Add to this a Chairman who CONSTANTLY looks back to when we went bust in order to justify a never ending level of mediocrity and for me the problems are all to evident to see.
We've become stale and are just happy to simply exist in this league and just love to shout that we're a small town in Europe from the stands so that we can justify just how bad we really are.
Please don't talk to me about the Carling Cup either, because as much as I loved that day if truth be told we only won it because Liverpool and the like weren't interested and so they fielded their b team.
The FA Cup and League Cup Finals where immense but we you get relegated as well it says to me that there are fundamental problems in the foundation stones upon which things are done.
This is something we can clearly see even today. Last year we beat the big guns and then lose to teams who shouldn't even be in the same league as us.
How is that possible ?
What is it in the heads of these players that allows this to happen and why haven't we sorted it out yet ?
" For me his verbal contributions on and off the pitch and his general body language scream "Couldn't Care Less". I suspect Mark must be a nice guy because he does not attract much critical attention, its like he's invisible and not part of the team and not reponsible for anything. "
I don't for one moment excuse anyone who has this attitude as self pride and the shirt alone should be enough to motivate anyone. That said, this has Keith Lamb and demotivation written all over it. My cynical eye suggests that he too, like Zenden, Quedrue, and Viduka before him is none too impressed about the way contract deals are done at this club.
Am I wrong ? Perhaps. But let's wheel out Mr Lamb onto an open air forum so that we can put these and other " Difficult " questions to him and so that he too has a chance to defend himself against these sorts of accusations.
It's easy to hide behind the comfort of a TV camera or to appear on radio phone ins hosted by Slaven and the like who haven't got the bottle to ask the really hard and searching questions.
Wheel out God whilst you're at it so that we can ask him face to face what his intentions are for this club and why exactly he persists and insists on hiring unquallified and unexperienced people to manage such a big, big club.
Wheel him out so that we can ask him if he runs Bulkhaul in the same way or if for that he chooses to select the very best people around. Wheel ALL these people out and let them face the fans.
I want Gibson to be here for life as he's done wonders for the club, but if he's lost interest - which it looks like he has, then for the good of the club he should stand aside.
TB
TB - My point was that Southgate should prioritise the issues. In short get rid of the worst goalkeeper in the premiership.
I don't thik it's fair to say Lamb and Gibson are failures because they were unable to shovel enough money into Viduka's , Zeige , Zendens pockets. They were mercenery players who used the club, sadly that happens.
They (Gibson & Lamb) are clearly good at providing the infrastructure and enviroment to produce and retain young players. It's a great club that is just a few players short of being a great team.
We have some very talented players Arca, Downing, Woodgate, Taylor, McMahon, ONeil, Johnson, Mido Pogatetz et al.
Don't you think getting rid of Gibson, Lamb , Cooper, Southgate is a bit radical ? Who do you think would replace them Jose and a Russian fairy Godmother ?
Trust me - get shot of the goalie and we will move forward with confidence.
Scoredraw
could'nt agree with score draw more. schwartzer must be dropped ,hes not interested anymore and has cost us several points already this season.
some very good posts this week but most of them missing the glaringly obvious - mr southgate is not the man for the job im afraid. he's been a great player but i get the feeling he will go the way of many other greats who tried and failed at management.
this season i watched the worst performance by a boro team in over 40 years at wigan, since then we have won 2 games against fulham and birmingham, we have yet to play any of the inform top teams.
i know we have had injuries but again this is down to the failure of the club to bring in adequate cover. i think the crowds will carry on dwindling until a new manager is introduced,i fear the worst with gareth,and i am not alone.
Scoredraw
Scissorhands has contributed to our problems at the back and is clearly approaching his sell by date. So have the defenders leaving the posts at set pieces, defenders not marking players, midfielders not picking up the runners, coaching staff preaching zonal marking, injuries giving us no outlet apart from simper the lion whimp.
When I posted about midfielders John Powls suggested that we might get one if we fused Boat and Cat. We are in a similar position with Corporal Jones (dont panic Captain Southgate) and Scissorhands. Having watched Jones on occasions eg West Brom in the cup, he does not inspire me with great confidence. The fact he is out for the foreseable future doesnt help either.
One solution would be to draft in Powls and Gill as fullbacks. John did prefer right midfield but we could combine well because I can use both feet equally well - or something to that effect. If we took a post each at set pieces it wouldnt leave much for Scissorhands to cover.
Other than that it is Playschool time - what can we see through the January window?
Never Happy
That is one of my pet subjects, everyone keeps talking about Toon's injuries but we are either unlucky or our medical team defy belief.
Boro have the perenial problem that I guess all medium size prem clubs suffer from and that is to improve the squad it is necessary to keep your best players and add to them.
Unfortunately the better ones are often tempted to bigger clubs who offer bigger wages. So where as we have added good players this year we have also lost Viduka. Two steps forward one back. That is why making progress is so hard and for us the situation is frustrating.
Add to that players coming to the end of their careers eg The Boat and Schwarzer and we are constantly looking for 'two good players' to strengthen the squad.
I can remember when Jackie Charlton was manager we needed two more good players, well thirty years on we're still looking.
If we can find a very good keeper and a good goalscorer then we might start to see an improvement, oh and if the defence stops conceeding daft goals.....
Dear AV, Friends and Totalitarians alike!
How am I compromising my 'brand' and why are 'my' so called 'cronies' traduced as being traitors to the cause for asking quite legitimate searching questions? Criticism given and taken freely is one of the vanguards of democracy.
I think I have some sense of what poor old David Shayler has gone through but thank God nothing like anything on the same scale...and look what's happened to him!
And Anthony kindly consider this I am by far and away not the only 'whistleblower' to point out certain things to those others sentient and intelligent enough to ask the right questions which might enable us to move forward.
And if any of the totalitarians up on Teesside doubt my love and passion for the club they can know this...that I tried to invite Stewey through his agent Ian Elliot to do BLUE PETER with us, which would have been great in terms of promoting Stewey and BORO, but well into the season it's just not practicable.
I just thought that with Hurworth being so close to the airport we could have squeezed it in...at least I invited a BORO player FIRST which shows what's on the heart of my sleeve.
A this morning very humourless,
Robin Mitton
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS
Seeing and listening to Steve McClaren the other night made me realise how lucky we are to 'get shot' of him.
His mealy mouthed response to the booing of Frank Lampard was typical of him "it was dissapointing .....Frank is big enough to overcome it..."
It's too much to expect McClaren to be courageous he prefers the path of least resistance, he's got one eye on the tabloid press all the time.
Of course he should have stepped in to protect Lampard (and Downing) and said that those that Booed Lampard are not wanted or welcome at England matches.
Am I the only person whose flesh creeps when the England Manager refers to Steven Gerrard as
"Stevie G" ?
I want Southgate to succeed becuase he seems a straight and ethical man. I think he needs to defend and fight for the club and team more than he does. He needs to highlight the two tier system that exists in the premiership. For example he should have screamed at the injustice of Downings booking at the first game of the season.
Apparantly Downing took the free kick before he received the refs permission. If that had been Thierry Henry the ref would have done a 'one two' to allow him to put it away.
Southgate needs to understand that the team , club and TOWN need a robust defence from the manager and that he is bright enough and brave enough to do this.
He should start by kicking off the debate about 'two tier' refereeing. Terry, Rooney, Gerrard get away with 'murder' Boro, Bolton, Blackburn players are punished for minor transgressions.
The idea that the Boro team has more bookings than any other team is ludicrous - Arca, Taylor, Downing, Rochemback, Aliadiere, Tuncay are players who selected for their touch and talent not their agression. Pogatetz and Boatang are booked for simply 'being there'.
Young, Cattermole and ONeil I'm pleased to say are capable of a bit of spite. But how the hell can we be top of the list for bookings, its almost as bad as the being title winners for the 'worst place to live' .
I'm actually quite proud of the 'worst place to live' award. Apparantly a few years ago Ashford in Kent won the best place to live award. For those who have not been lucky enough to visit Ashford if you take the glamour and glitz out of Grimsby, add 25,000 'Wimpey Dream Homes' you have Ashford which sits there like a pre glastnost East European hell hole. It's not particularly dangerous or deprived but it's not alive either.
Scoredraw
Interesting reading the latest installment about getting mean.
It highlights the problem of players bombing forward and leaving gaps at the back. Surely that is headless chicken football, when you watch good attacking teams if the full back bombs on one of the midfielders covers for them.
That is why teams play holding midfielders to cover for defenders. If we couldnt get it sorted with a five in midfield we are struggling.
Also highlighted issues which are common themes on this blog, 11 men back in the box not marking anyone, scissorhands is not having the best of seasons, likelihood of new players or not.
In fact the whole talkback idea is covering what we blog about every day. Will anyone listen? Or are these esteemed fans just whistling in the dark like the rest of us?
"Great Scott and Holy Cow!" quoteth Robin!
AV,
If I am in danger of becoming a "cartoon character" then 'The Tales by the Riverside" is fast becoming a quasi-picaresque novel. Here's a list of the 'cast':
Keith Lamb - an engaging madman who
lives by the codes of
Chivalric romance in which
his illusory love for SG
(Quixhote's Beatrice) is
used to explore the theme
of 'reality' ie, where
Keith sees the Riverside as
a gleaming resplendant
palace and beacon of sporty
solidarity to the world -
when it is in fact getting
quite tatty and in need of
a lick o'paint as does his
commercial ideology.
Mark Page - An insouciant rascal who
lives by his cunning and
through his long adventures
shows little sign of being
able to alter his character
and therefore cannot
develop in a way in which
the reader (fans) might
truly applaud - Pigbag
excepted.
Mr. Fordy - A loyaly rougeish Squire and
servant. By far and away
the most intelligent of the
lot and a supreme survivor,
but born to remain servile.
SG - The romantic and often
crazily idealized love
object. In this narrative
tragically Keith will never
be allowed to consummate
his forever flowering love
for this often unseen but
nevertheless powerful and
aphrodisiasical presence.
Robin
SCOREDRAW,
You are absolutely right mate. I've hated Ashford and what it stands for for so long. We only moved from Oxfordshire to be here with Derek (my wife's father) who was dying from heart failure - he WAS a gentleman I can tell you.
I tried to come back to the North East but after 6 months of hard work putting a fantastic Junior International summer school together as has been mentioned.
I do so much for BOROLAND but it seems that I'm just not meant to be. I remember when my poor old Mam was alive I used to do her shopping up Crescent Rd and then down Parly Rd = I'd be out for at least 2 hours because butcher, baker, grocer and anyone else who fancied a chat were committed to social relations and friendship.
Down here there is NO solidarity and it's everyman for himself! Can't wait to get to France.
All the best Scoredraw!
Robin Mitton
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS
AV - Please tell me Eric was joking when he put the following in tonights article
Southgate can also call on a third striker in South Korean Dong-Gook Lee, who is back in full training following a back problem.
It means that the manager has a relative embarrassment of riches after suffering from a dearth of front-line strikers recently.
**AV writes: I think the key word there might be 'relative.'
Relative!!
Oh God AV, please don't tell me he has a twin brother masquerading as a football as well.
If so don't let GS know.
Never Happy
There you are concentrating on whether strikers are fit or not and totally ignoring the fact that despite the drop in attendances those that do turn up are getting through more pies and burgers.
What is more, this is a real increase in numbers so the per capita increase in consumption is quite remarkable. And there is no Ricketts or Stampy to account for it either.
You would think it would merit more column space than Eric devoted to it.
So do i read it right ? The reason why we are so bad is because of our keeper.
Hmmmm. I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced at all and to say that he's the worst keeper in the league is just plain stupid.
He has no qualities other than he's tall ? Were you on the bevvy or the happy baccy when you wrote / ranted on score draw ?
You're obviously the wind up merchant of this bunch i take it because your post was so way off the mark that you must be.
Get rid of stan and ollie ( southgate and coops ), replace lamb, put in some decent back room people and a bunch of physios who can actually treat and cure, and i think you will see how things improve.
Ahh yes. But i guess you will point out what a sterling job they have done on woody. Pity he's got his own physio and trainer. Speaks volumes for the people that are actually paid and supposed to be doing this - doesn't it ?
Have a crossed your line mr vickers ? have i spoken out of turn and so you will be forced to edit out my post like some gestapo general ?
I know you have a job to do and so i don't take it with you personally, but we all know that gazette and people like paylor are the mfc's men in black at your hq to ensure that you all " stay on message " as much as is plausable or should i say as much you can get away with.
Crowds are down year on year and the reasons are all too evident. A team full of nobodies, rejects, left overs and has beens, two chumps in the dug out, even more chumps behind the scenes, the same old rubbish and rallying calls on the back of the gazette reminiscent of that guy who kept saying that iraq were winning the war as the american and uk troops arrived on camera in the background, a chairman who has lost all sense of reality and is stuck firmly in the past and worst of all what is without doubt the worst football in the premiership or amongst the worst.
" I tried to come back to the North East but after 6 months of hard work putting a fantastic Junior International summer school together as has been mentioned.
I do so much for BOROLAND but it seems that I'm just not meant to be. "
Thank god for that. Are you max clifford in disguise ? Talk about blowing your own trumpet.
I wouldn't mind but your achievements are non existent and no one other than you has ever heard of you.
Perhape you should join Bernie and the three legends as they are your kind of people. tonymonaco
**AV writes: I only took three words out there. You are getting the hang of it now.
Ashford vs Boro? No contest give me Boro every time. Ashford is a soulless place built around a now redundant train station.
Lets all pray that Tuncay isn't crocked playing against Greece. A grudge match if ever there was one.
On a completely different thread isn't the fact that Woodie isn't in the England squad proof he is not fit? If that is the case playing him is a high risk strategy even taking into account our long list of injured defenders.
Same old cynical Boro supporters, once described by Brian Glanville (in a book I got 45 years ago) as the harshest in the country. Is anybody safe from their judgement ? Though they do know their football, well, most of them.
Now its Schwartzer in the firing line; unbelievable. Yes Erano had acres to chip into at Man City, but what if he'd blasted it the other way? (his normal ploy). He's a class act, and we gave him the chances to show it.
But Schwartzer also produced some terrific saves in that match. He's suffering from uncertainty, along with various others; that's why a settled back 4 and team is so important.
And Lee, not the greatest, still could do with a break, but he has used some pace and energy when that was in very short supply last season.
That in itself is not everything, but remember the 'lad' David Mills (who might read this) ? If he'd scored 10% of the chances he had, Boro would have won the League a couple of times - maybe.
But Jack Charlton saw something in him, and Ron Atkinson, who paid an astronomical ã500,000 for him. Why ? because he could, amongst other things, run at some pace into the corners, which can stretch a defence and create space for others, as long as they move their backsides and run into them. The latter (working off the ball) is what makes great teams, and the Boro for years, even Man Utd, and England are woeful at this (Rooney excluded). Lee can be useful if he gets some encouragement.
It's too early to cast stones yet, this season, but it looks like a critical one for the Boro, with a crisis of confidence on and off the field.
If everyone, including the supporters, really pull together, things might look up. But carping disillusionment could undermine the progress that Southgate has been making (like playing some real football) and turn promise into disaster. Maybe that's what Boro fans are used to (and I've just seen the England result v Russia. Seen this before ?)
Now now Swiss Tony from Monaco don't get personal.
Actually I believe everything I said about Schwarzer, he's completely inadequate on all counts - I was being charitable when I said he has height in his favour. I'd sooner have Danny Devito in goal.
The only thing that comes close to annoying me as much as his choreographed half time warm up (that 60 year old never gets one passed him !) is the army of supporters who point to his loyalty and say he's been a good SERVANT !!!
He's been on 15,000 to 20,0000 a week for God's sake. Mark Schwarzer - loyalty and selflessness personified ! I can't wait for his testamonial. I'll be the one who hands him the exploding cigar.
Also I couldn't work out whether you were criticising me, Gareth Southgate, the Gazette, Mr Lamb, Colin Cooper, Mr Vickers, .........
Tonymonaco
Calm down, calm down, AV is not subject to the whims of the Riverside KGB. Well that is what he posts. I do know he is concerned about the plastic daffodil on his desk that seems to follow him as he moves round.
He has also expressed concern when he sees Eric with a USB cable plugged into his left ear.
The clearest proof of the fact he is not controlled by MFC (Middlesbrough Football Comissariat) is the clear evidence that they take chuff all notice of what we blog about.
By the way have you noticed that the one thing in common between MFC and the Kremlin is Red Square.
Of even more importance is getting stuck into Chelski, that is what we look forward to, a good result
Hey Nigel and other Ashford LUUURvvers!
Can you guess WHO got the contract to promote the town as the most desireable place to live and other such tosh?
Yes Guys MEEEEEE ME and ME!!!
Robin Mitton
OLD TOSH FOR ASHFORD
FRM - You think it's unbelievable that Schwarzer is in the firing line ?? I've merely sent a couple of e-mails saying I think he's the worst keeper in the premiership (name one worse ?)
Don't be distracted by the choice of the Elano free kick to illustrate his pitiful efforts. Next time you see the free kick just look at Schwarzer's physical movements, his agility, effort, awareness (concentration) and if you think it resembles a professional goalkeeper I'll stop responding to you because you are beyond help.
Before I get hounded out of this forum for saying too much does anyone agree with me that Steven Gerarrd is the most overrated player in the world ??
It just goes to show what 500,000 twisted scousers can acheieve when they put their mind to it. They have convinced large sections of the English public that Gerard is world class !!!
He's not even the best midfielder in the Liverpool team and if you dont believe me ask Rafa !
Everytime I watch him he gives the ball away with a succession of hoplessly ambitious long passes, not a bit of criticism from the TV pundits. I think he engineered Beckham's departure and hes working on Lampard. Bit of a sneak and a coward in the tackle (i.e. dirty not tough)
Poor Rafa he's trying to subtly tell the Scouse masses that Stevie Gerrard is not that good by buying an army of midfileders Alonso ,Mascherno, Sissoko .. if he rests him this weekend Liverpool will win and slowly but surely our cousins in the 'land of the curly perm' will see the light.
But Rafa needs to get a move on because Stevie G is not a political novice.
Back to the BORO - At last some luck has come our way :- Terry injured, Cole crippled (hes a blue eye of mine Ashley not the other poseuer) Jose's gone (I'm heartbroken).
Metaphorically speaking 'an exposed groin if ever there was one' - stick the boot in lads !!!
Score Draw, I think you are being slightly over the top in your condemnation of Schwarzer, I think we all agree that he seems to be in decline and most of us believe he is in his last year at Boro.
If and when he leaves I will thank him for his efforts, he has been a good keeper and has had some great moments such as the Fowler penalty save.
To say he is the worst keeper in the prem. is not an assessment you or i can make unless you have watched all the others in all their games this season which I doubt unless you are John Motson in disguise.
Un-scientifically I would suggest that Paul Robinson is in worse form than Schwarzer.
What you are doing is falling into the old trap of blaming a keeper for every goal conceded, Boro's goals against tally this season is the responsibility of 11 players not one.
Scoredraw,
I think it's more than reasonable that we should look at the option of bulding the England midfield around Lampard even if that means dropping Gerrard.
With regards to Gates I also feel that the management should consider a Venables type solution - bring in someone to 'train' Gates up as a would be 1st class Premiership manager.
Aren't Rangers doing that with Ally McCoist and Walter Smith? Hope they will think about this before we start to go down like "sheeps"!
Robin Mitton
FOOTBALL FOR NATIONS
Score Draw - SG is one of many English PL players who are massively overated.
England played well for an hour, then started defending far too deeply (MaClaren Trait) and were undone by two goals from errors by the referee and their own goalkeeper.
A reasonably good international football team lost to a slightly inferior one, who had the advantage of playing at home.
There is a rumour on the street that an international manager with plenty of experience in the premiership as a manager and number 2 may become available before Xmas.
He has won trophies as coach and manager and has experience of europe. He would however want to bring his own number two and sports trick cyclist.
Could this be the answer to the lack of experience on the coaching front
**AV writes: But is Teesside too far to travel from his family home?
Could be a good time to play Chelsea, no Cole, Essien or Terry
C'mon Boro get stuck in and give us all a boost.
AV
Re reading my last blog sent a shiver down my spine, shouldnt even joke about such things and just hope nothing happens to make me regret it, a bit like not mentioning that play by Shakespeare.
Interesting reading the comments about Gerrard, whilst both my lad and I would welcome him playing for us I do think he is the new Beckham in that he is untouchable. On his day he is unstoppable but when we are struggling (England) he starts driving long passes with the same accuracy as Boat. In one of our defeats by Portugal his pass completion was 35%! Everything has to go through him.
But he is a good player as are many in the squad. And that is the problem we have, a mixture of good and average players managed by an average manager. I firmly believe they are all doing their best, they just are not as good as we want them to be.
Onto Boro, Lawro has predicted 0-2. Before the Citeh match I fancied us to get something out of match. We did but it was what I feared not what I hoped. After Saturday it is the old ten game test, lets hope for something positive.
Ian Gill, no you have it wrong its the time of the year where the momentum starts gathering for calls bring Mogga to MFC..Then it disappears once they are knocked out of the FA cup
Nigel - You are right it will probably be Schwarzers last season in the Premiership. Do you think it's wise to let him make it our last season as well ? Are you saying "hes on the wane, but let's put up with him and let him go at the end of the season" ?
Its fascinating to hear Mark's fans defend him - they always refer to one save (4 years ago!!). Can you think of occassions where he played so well throughout the game that we got all three points ? I can think of dozens of performances by Juskalainen, Friedel, Given (Harper), Green, James and yes Robinson as well where their performances hve been largely responsible for securing all 3 points. That's as scientific as I am going to get - he is clearly physically not up to it and never has been.
Just watch his movement and compare it to other goalies. Thats my last word on him, honest.
Score Draw, maybe it is Woodgates last season too. Like Schwarzer he doesn't seem to be have his eye on the ball at the minute.
**AV writes: Maybe a lot of fans as well then. There are plenty of them just going through the motions.
Mr Barron the goalkeeping coach reckons a lot of fans are unhappy that the 35 year old Mark Schwarzer hasn't signed a new contract !!
Nothing could be further from the truth -I'm absolutely delighted.
He reckons Mark's been a good "SERVANT"
Professional footballers on ã20,0000 a week referred to as "SERVANTS" ! It's too sick to be funny.
Also apparantly the fact that Mark has been with us for 11 years is testament to how good he is.
That's almost as laughable as the ludicrous rumour that Bayern Munich and Man Utd were after him.
Mr Barron, you're having a laugh.